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Studio "B" Transcripts The Gospel of John
Dr. Ross Cochran is a professor of Bible at Harding University in Searcy, Arkansas. Dr. Cochran visited our KNLS studio "B" recently to introduce our listening friends to the New Testament Bible book called John. John is one of the first four books of the New Testament, a set of writings often referred to as "The Gospels" ,because they relate the life story and message of Jesus Christ. Dr. Cochran's comments follow. Please note the copyright notice at the bottom of this page. You may now jump to one of the following:
MIKE: WELCOME, RADIO FRIENDS. GLAD YOU COULD JOIN US FOR THIS ENGLISH LANGUAGE TRANSMISSION FROM THE NEW LIFE STATION, KNLS. THIS IS MIKE OSBORNE, YOUR HOST FOR THE BROADCAST AND AS I PROMISED YOU AT THE BEGINNING OF THE HOUR WE ARE VISITING TODAY IN THE AMERICAN STATE OF ARKANSAS, AND THE SMALL TOWN OF SEARCY VISITING THE CAMPUS OF HARDING UNIVERSITY AND SPEAKING TODAY TO DR. ROSS COCHRAN. DR. COCHRAN IS A BIBLE SCHOLAR HERE AT HARDING UNIVERSITY AND HAS AGREED TO TALK TO US ABOUT THE BIBLE BOOK CALLED “JOHN”. DR. COCHRAN WE CERTAINLY APPRECIATE YOUR TAKING TIME TO VISIT WITH US TODAY. DR. COCHRAN: THANK YOU. GLAD TO BE WITH YOU. MIKE: WE’RE GOING TO BE TALKING FOR THE NEXT SEVERAL DAYS WITH YOU ABOUT THIS NEW TESTAMENT BOOK CALLED “JOHN”. WHY DON’T YOU JUST, IF YOU WOULD, INTRODUCE OUR LISTENING FRIENDS TO THIS BOOK TODAY. DR. COCHRAN: SURE. WELL SOME OF YOU MAY KNOW THAT IN THE BIBLE THERE ARE BROADLY TWO DIVISIONS, OLD TESTAMENT SCRIPTURE AND NEW TESTAMENT SCRIPTURE. WITHIN THE NEW TESTAMENT SCRIPTURE, THERE ARE 27 BOOKS. FOUR OF THOSE WE CALL GOSPELS. MEANING THEY TELL THE GOOD NEWS STORY OF JESUS CHRIST. OF THE FOUR, THREE OF THEM ARE QUITE SIMILAR IN SOME WAYS – MATTHEW, MARK AND LUKE AND SO WE CALL THOSE GOSPELS SYNOPTIC GOSPELS WHICH MEANS TO SEE FROM A SIMILAR POINT OF VIEW. BUT THE FOURTH GOSPEL IS THE ONE THAT I’M HERE TODAY TO SHARE WITH YOU – THE GOSPEL OF JOHN. IT’S VERY DIFFERENT IN SOME WAYS THAN THE OTHER GOSPELS. IT DOES SHARE SIMILARITY WITH THE OTHERS IN THAT IT’S VERY FOCUSED ON THE PERSON AND WORK OF JESUS CHRIST. BUT OTHER THAN THAT, THERE ARE MANY, MANY DIFFERENCES. MIKE: WHY DON’T YOU SHARE WITH US, I DON’T KNOW, MAYBE PERHAPS THE BASIC THEME OR PURPOSE OF THIS BOOK, WOULD BE A GOOD WAY TO SAY THAT? DR. COCHRAN: YES. I’D LIKE THAT. JOHN DOES US A FAVOR IN WRITING THIS GOSPEL IN THAT HE TELLS US WHAT HE IS UP TO. HE TELLS US WHAT HIS PURPOSE IS AND NEAR THE END OF THE BOOK HE SAYS THIS IN JOHN 20:30-31. “JESUS DID MANY OTHER MIRACULOUS SIGNS IN THE PRESENCE OF HIS DISCIPLES WHICH ARE NOT RECORDED IN THIS BOOK. BUT THESE ARE WRITTEN THAT YOU MAY BELIEVE THAT JESUS IS THE CHRIST, THE SON OF GOD, AND THAT BY BELIEVING YOU MAY HAVE LIFE IN HIS NAME.” I’VE ALWAYS SEEN, MIKE, THAT THERE ARE SEVERAL KEY WORDS IN THAT TEXT, ONE OF WHICH IS THE WORD”SIGNS”. THE OTHER GOSPELS, MATTHEW, MARK AND LUKE, WOULD USE THE WORD MIRACLE USUALLY TO REFER TO A SUPERNATURAL DEED OF JESUS. JOHN FREQUENTLY USES THE WORD “SIGN” WHICH IS TO INDICATE, PERHAPS, THAT HE NOT ONLY WANTS US TO SEE THE DEEDS OF JESUS, ESPECIALLY THE MIRACULOUS DEEDS OF JESUS, BUT HE WANTS US TO SEE THEM AS INDICATORS THAT THEY POINT TO SOMETHING ABOUT THE PERSON OF JESUS THAT HE IS NOT A NORMAL PERSON, HE IS IN FACT A SUPERNATURAL PERSON, A UNIQUE GOD- MAN. THERE IS ANOTHER WORD IN THIS TEXT, THE WORD “BELIEVE”. “I WRITE THESE THINGS, HE SAYS, THAT YOU MAY BELIEVE.” INTERESTINGLY, THE VERB “BELIEVE” OCCURS IN THE GOSPEL OF JOHN SOME 98 TIMES. AND THIS WORD NEVER OCCURS AS A NOUN. AND WE MAY THINK, “WELL WHAT IS SIGNIFICANT ABOUT THAT?” SOME PEOPLE THINK THAT FAITH IS SOMETHING THAT YOU HAVE. WHEREAS FROM JOHN’S POINT OF VIEW, FAITH OR BELIEVING IS SOMETHING THAT YOU DO; YOU PUT YOUR FAITH IN JESUS CHRIST. AND HE SEES FAITH OR BELIEVING AS SOMETHING VERY DYNAMIC. AND THEN A THIRD THING I WOULD POINT TO JUST AS A WAY OF INTRODUCING THIS BOOK IS THAT THE FOCUS IS ON JESUS CHRIST. HE SAYS, “I WRITE THESE THINGS THAT YOU MAY BELIEVE THAT JESUS IS THE CHRIST THE SON OF GOD.” AND LARGELY THAT IS WHAT THE BOOK OF JOHN IS ABOUT IS TRYING TO GIVE HIS READERS A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT INCIDENTS FROM THE LIFE OF JESUS TO POINT TO THE FACT THAT HE IS A UNIQUE PERSON, THE MESSIAH, THE CHRIST, THE PROMISED IN JEWISH SCRIPTURE, AND THE SON OF GOD, UNIQUELY GOD’S SON. AND SO IT’S VERY INTERESTING AND I’VE LONG BEEN INTERESTED IN THIS BOOK AND I FIND IT A VERY FASCINATING PORTRAIT OF JESUS. AND I’M TO BE WITH THE LISTENERS FOR THESE FEW DAYS TO TALK ABOUT IT. MIKE: WELL IT CERTAINLY HAS ALWAYS BEEN A FAVORITE OF MINE AND SO I CERTAINLY APPRECIATE YOU GIVING US THIS VERY UNIQUE OPPORTUNITY. AGAIN, PERHAPS CAPITALIZING THE THEME OR PURPOSE OF THE BOOK IS PROVIDING EVIDENCE THAT THOSE WHO READ MIGHT BELIEVE THAT JESUS IS THE CHRIST. WHAT ARE SOME OF THE MEANS OR METHODS BY WHICH HE DEVELOPS THAT THEME THROUGHOUT THE BOOK? DR. COCHRAN: THAT’S A GOOD QUESTION. SOMETIMES JOHN THE AUTHOR WILL LET US GET PRETTY CLOSE IN TOUCH WITH SOME INDIVIDUALS, FOR INSTANCE. HE WILL LET US SEE PEOPLE MEETING JESUS FOR THE FIRST TIME AND STRUGGLING WITH HOW TO UNDERSTAND HIM AND WHAT TO MAKE OF HIM, HOW TO UNDERSTAND WHO HE IS. YOU’LL SEE PEOPLE STRUGGLING TO TRY TO FIGURE OUT BECAUSE CLEARLY HE’S LIKE NO ONE THEY’VE EVER MET AND SO THEY DON’T REALLY HAVE A PREVIOUS EXPERIENCE THAT THEY CAN CALL ON TO DECIDE OR MAKE SOME CONCLUSION OF WHO JESUS IS. AND SO WE GET TO FEEL WITH INDIVIDUAL CHARACTERS SAY LIKE A MAN NAME NICODEMUS. A MAN WHO IS DESCRIBED IN CHAPTER 9 AS HAVING BEEN BORN BLIND AND THAT HIM STRUGGLING TO COME TO SOME DECISION ABOUT JESUS. YOU’VE GOT THE DYNAMICS OF ACCEPTANCE OF JESUS OR FAITH AND REJECTION THAT ARE WOVEN THROUGHOUT BOOK. SO THERE ARE A NUMBER OF WAYS THAT HE COMES AT THIS, BUT I FIND IT AN INTRIGUING PORTRAIT AND WOULD ENCOURAGE THE LISTENERS TO STAY WITH US AS WE PURSUE THESE THINGS FOR A FEW DAYS. MIKE: DR. COCHRAN, FOR THOSE THAT MAY NOT BE FAMILIAR WITH THE BIBLE MAY NOT HAVE HAD OPPORTUNITY TO STUDY THE BIBLE IN THE PAST. ARE THERE ANY THINGS THAT THEY SHOULD KNOW ABOUT THE BOOK OF JOHN AS THEY BEGIN TO READ AND STUDY THE BOOK? IS THERE ANY KIND OF BACKGROUND INFORMATION THAT WOULD MAKE A FIRST TIME STUDENTS LOOK AT THE BOOK OF JOHN A LITTLE BIT EASIER? DR. COCHRAN: YES THERE ARE A FEW THINGS, MIKE. I’M GLAD THAT YOU ASKED. ONE THING IS, THE PHRASE “THE JEWS” APPEARS FREQUENTLY IN THE GOSPEL OF JOHN AND USUALLY IT’S IN A NEGATIVE LIGHT. I’M ALWAYS CAREFUL TO POINT OUT THAT WHILE IN JOHN’S GOSPEL THAT TERM IS USED NEGATIVELY THAT CERTAINLY NOT ALL JEWS WERE SEEN EVEN IN THE LIFE OF JESUS AS IN A NEGATIVE CONTEXT. JOHN HIMSELF APPEARS TO HAVE BEEN A JEW. JESUS, OF COURSE, IS A JEW. YOU MEET SEVERAL PERSONS IN THE GOSPEL OF JOHN WHO AREN’T JEWISH BY ETHNICITY, BUT YOU ARE NOT SEEN AS OPPONENTS OF JESUS. AND SO I THINK THAT IN THE CONTEXT OF WHICH THIS BOOK WAS FIRST WRITTEN THAT PHRASE IS PROBABLY BEING USED TO REFER TO THOSE JEWS WHO 1) HAPPEN TO BE IN POSITIONS OF AUTHORITY IN THEIR SOCIETIES AND COMMUNITIES AND 2) WHO WERE ANTAGONISTIC OR REJECTED JESUS. I THINK THAT HELPS. I THINK LISTENING FOR THE FACT THAT WHEN JESUS TEACHES IN THIS GOSPEL HE DOESN’T TEACH MUCH ABOUT ETHICS OR BEHAVIOR. HIS TEACHINGS IN THIS BOOK ARE PRIMARILY CENTERED ON HIS PERSON. IT SEEMS TO BE A PRIMARY ISSUE FOR JOHN AS HE WRITES THIS AND SO IF YOU WANTED TO KNOW SOMETHING ABOUT WHAT JESUS TAUGHT ABOUT HE WANTS HIS DISCIPLES TO LIVE THERE IS SOMETHING A LITTLE OF THAT IN JOHN. BUT NOT A GREAT DEAL, NOT NEARLY AS MUCH AS IN MATTHEW AND MARK AND LUKE. THIS IS MORE A GOSPEL THAT HOLDS UP THOSE TEACHINGS OF JESUS THAT POINT TO THE NATURE OF HIS PERSON, WHICH AGAIN IS HIS POINT. “I WRITE THESE THINGS THAT YOU MAY BELIEVE THAT JESUS IS THE CHRIST, THE SON OF GOD.” AND SO THAT IS JOHN’S POINT AND THOSE ARE SOME OF THE WAYS THAT HE COMES AT IT. MIKE: DR. COCHRAN, WE ARE GOING TO BE VISITING WITH YOU HERE ON THE CAMPUS OF HARDING UNIVERSITY FOR THE NEXT SEVERAL DAYS AS OUR TRANSMISSION WEEK CONTINUES. WHY DON’T YOU SHARE WITH US SOME OF THE THEMES THAT WE’LL BE LOOKING AT EACH OF THE DAYS WE VISIT WITH YOU HERE. DR. COCHRAN: I’D LIKE TO EARLY ON IN OUR SERIES TALK ABOUT THE RESURRECTION OF JESUS BECAUSE I THINK THAT’S VERY IMPORTANT, NOT ONLY A THEME IN JOHN’S GOSPEL, BUT IT’S A VERY IMPORTANT ISSUE, A VERY IMPORTANT MOMENT AS WE THINK ABOUT WHAT CHRISTIANITY IS AND WHO THE PERSON OF JESUS IS. THAT WE COME TO SOME CONCLUSION OR AT LEAST BEGIN WONDERING ABOUT THE RESURRECTION OF JESUS FROM THE DEAD. WE’LL TALK ABOUT THAT IN SOME DETAIL. IN FACT, I THINK WE’LL TALK ABOUT THAT IN AN APPROACH THAT MIGHT BE OF INTEREST TO THE LISTENERS BECAUSE IT DOESN’T ASSUME THAT THEY KNOW ANYTHING NECESSARILY ABOUT JOHN’S GOSPEL OR EVEN ABOUT SCRIPTURE. SO I THINK IT’S SOMETHING THAT THEY CAN IDENTIFY WITH READILY. ANOTHER THEME IS THE THEME OF JESUS BEING GOD, BEING BOTH GOD AND MAN AT THE SAME TIME. AGAIN, IT’S A DIFFICULT ISSUE BEING DISCUSSED EVER SINCE THE LIFE OF JESUS IS PRESENT IN HISTORY. BUT WE’LL BEGIN EARLY IN OUR SERIES TALKING ABOUT THE INCARNATION, HOW DID GOD BECOME A MAN – THAT WILL BE ANOTHER THEME WE WILL DO. SO THOSE WILL BE SOME OF THE THINGS WE’LL DO. WE’LL LOOK AT A MAN NAME NICODEMUS, A VERY INTERESTING CHARACTER IN THIS BOOK. I THINK YOU’LL FIND IN HIM A PERSON THAT A LOT OF US CAN IDENTIFY WITH. HE ONLY APPEARS IN JOHN’S GOSPEL. SO IF YOU WANT TO KNOW ABOUT NICODEMUS YOU’VE GOT TO SEE HIM IN JOHN’S GOSPEL. WE’LL LOOK AT HIM IN SOME DETAIL. MIKE: DR. COCHRAN, YOU’VE GOTTEN US OFF TO A GREAT START AND WE’LL LOOK FORWARD TO VISITING WITH YOU MORE AS THE WEEK PROGRESSES. Would you like to return to the top of the page?
What John Says About Resurrection MIKE: DR. COCHRAN WAS WITH US YESTERDAY HERE ON KNLS AND WILL BE WITH US IN FACT ALL OF THIS WEEK ON THE NEW LIFE STATION TALKING WITH US ABOUT THE BIBLE BOOK CALLED “JOHN”. DR. COCHRAN WE CERTAINLY APPRECIATE YOUR TAKING TIME OUT OF YOUR BUSY SCHEDULE TO VISIT WITH US. DR. COCHRAN: GLAD TO BE HERE. IT’S GOOD TO BE WITH YOU, MIKE. MIKE: DR. COCHRAN, YOU GOT US OFF TO A GREAT START YESTERDAY TALKING ABOUT THIS BIBLE BOOK CALLED “JOHN” AND GIVING US SOMETHING OF AN OVERVIEW. TODAY WE WANT TO GET JUST A BIT MORE SPECIFIC AND BEGIN DEALING WITH SOME OF THE PRIMARY THEMES OUT OF THIS BOOK OF JOHN AND CERTAINLY ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT THEMES OUT OF THE BOOK IS THIS IDEA OF RESURRECTION. IN FACT, I KNOW IF ANY OF OUR LISTENING FRIENDS HAVE CHRISTIAN FRIENDS OR FAMILY THEY KNOW THAT THIS IDEA OR CONCEPT OR TOPIC OF RESURRECTION IS ONE THAT CHRISTIAN PEOPLE TALK ABOUT A LOT. CAN YOU TELL US, FIRST OF ALL, DEFINE RESURRECTION FOR US? TALK ABOUT WHY THIS PARTICULAR SUBJECT IS SO IMPORTANT TO CHRISTIAN PEOPLE AND THEN MAYBE SHARE WITH US A BIT ABOUT WHAT THE BOOK OF JOHN HAS TO SAY ON THE SUBJECT OF RESURRECTION. DR. COCHRAN: SURE. YOU’RE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT. CHRISTIANS TALK A LOT ABOUT RESURRECTION BECAUSE IT IN SOME WAYS IS THE VERY CORNERSTONE OF THEIR FAITH. BY CORNERSTONE, I MEAN IT’S THE CENTRAL IDEA OF THEIR FAITH. CHRISTIANS WILL OFTEN WEAR A CROSS AROUND THEIR NECKS OR ON A PIECE OF JEWELRY OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT OR A CHURCH BUILDING MAY HAVE A CROSS ON IT. BUT THAT DOESN’T REALLY HAVE MEANING UNTIL THE RESURRECTION OCCURS. THE DEATH OF JESUS ONLY HAS MEANING ONCE THE RESURRECTION OF JESUS OCCURS. SO IT’S A VERY CENTRAL MOMENT IN CHRISTIANITY. IT IS ONE OF THE THINGS THAT MAKES CHRISTIANITY UNIQUE AMONG THE WORLD RELIGIONS. OTHER PEOPLE THEIR LEADERS WERE GREAT PROPHETS OF GOD. CHRISTIANITY AFFIRMS THAT JESUS WAS GOD IN THE FLESH, WAS CRUCIFIED FOR THE SINS OF THE WORLD, AND THEN THREE DAYS LATER WAS RAISED BODILY FROM DEATH. WHICH BRINGS US TO THE SECOND QUESTION YOU ASKED ABOUT DEFINING RESURRECTION. SOME PEOPLE MAY HAVE A NOTION ABOUT RESURRECTION AS AN IDEA LIKE WHEN THE SPRING COMES AND THE TREES AND FLOWERS BEGIN TO BLOOM; THAT IS KIND OF THE EARTH COMING BACK TO LIFE AND A KIND OF RESURRECTION. AND I SUPPOSE IT COULD BE THOUGHT OF THAT WAY, CERTAINLY. BUT WHEN CHRISTIANS SPEAK OF THE RESURRECTION, WE’RE SPEAKING EITHER OF THE RESURRECTION OF ALL SAINTS, ALL CHRISTIANS AT THE END OF TIME OR USUALLY THE RESURRECTION OF JESUS FROM THE DEAD. THAT THIS IS HIS BODILY RESURRECTION, ACTUAL RESUSCITATION OF A DEAD PERSON BACK TO LIFE. SO THAT’S WHAT WE’RE TALKING ABOUT. IT IS A VERY IMPORTANT MOMENT IN CHRISTIANITY. IN FACT, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT’S IMPORTANT TO MY FAITH AS A CHRISTIAN IS THE FACT THAT WHEN I THINK ABOUT CHRISTIANITY THAT IT’S HERE IN THE WORLD. I BEGIN TO WONDER WHERE DID IT COME FROM. SOME OPTIONS ARE THAT IT WAS PRODUCED BY THE TEACHINGS OF JESUS THAT KIND OF LIKE A GROUP OF PEOPLE GATHERING AROUND A FAMOUS WRITER, ADMIRING HIS OR HER WRITINGS AND DISCUSSING THEM AND REVIEWING THEM AND PERHAPS DISCUSSING THE FINER POINTS OF THEIR MEANINGS. CHRISTIANITY IS NOT THAT KIND OF CLUB OR ASSOCIATION. IT IS A GROUP OF PEOPLE WHO ALL AFFIRM THAT JESUS WAS RAISED FROM THE DEAD. BUT WHEN I THINK ABOUT WHERE CHRISTIANITY CAME FROM, IT’S OBVIOUSLY IN THE WORLD, NOBODY DENIES THAT. IT’S IN THE WORLD, IT’S A PRESENCE IN THE WORLD, IT ALWAYS HAS NOT BEEN LIVED AS WELL AS IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN CERTAINLY. BUT CHRISTIANITY IS HERE. MY QUESTION FOR OUR LISTENERS IS, “WHERE DID IT COME FROM?” THAT’S THE QUESTION I ASK MYSELF. WHERE DID CHRISTIANITY COME FROM? I HONESTLY, MIKE, CAN’T FIND A REASON FOR CHRISTIANITY’S BEGINNING UNLESS IT IS THE RESURRECTION. YOU MAY RECALL THAT THE EARLIEST DISCIPLES, AT THE MOMENT JESUS IS CRUCIFIED, THEY ARE ALL VERY FRIGHTENED. IN FACT, JOHN’S GOSPEL IS THE ONE THAT TELLS US THE DISCIPLES GO AND LOCK THEMSELVES IN A ROOM FOR FEAR THAT THE LEADERS WOULD COME AND GET THEM NEXT. SO THEY ARE VERY AFRAID AND ARE NOT IN ANY POSITION TO GO OUT AND SPREAD ANY KIND OF STORY ABOUT JESUS THAT MIGHT GAIN ADDITIONAL FOLLOWERS. IT’S ONLY WHEN THE RESURRECTION OCCURS THAT THAT CHANGES. I THINK, FOR INSTANCE, PARTICULARLY OF PETER, ONE OF JESUS’ FOLLOWERS. PETER WAS VERY FRIGHTENED; SOME OF THE LISTENERS MAY KNOW WELL ENOUGH THAT PETER WAS THE ONE WHO WHEN ASKED IF HE WAS ASSOCIATED WITH JESUS SAID, “I AM NOT!” HE FLATLY DENIED IT IN THE PRESENCE OF SEVERAL. IN FACT, HE DID THAT THREE TIMES. BUT AFTER THE RESURRECTION, WE FIND PETER VERY BOLD IF YOU READ THE EARLY CHAPTERS OF THE BOOK OF THE NEW TESTAMENT BIBLE BOOK OF ACTS. THAT HE’S VERY, VERY BOLD; AND PREACHING THE NEWS THAT JESUS IS, IN FACT, GOD’S SON. WHEN I ASK WHAT CHANGES PETER, THE ONLY THING I CAN THINK IT TO BE IS THE RESURRECTION. SO IT IS A VERY IMPORTANT EVEN FOR CHRISTIANITY, IT’S NOT JUST AN IDEA, IT’S A HISTORIC EVEN, AND IT IS THE THEME THAT GIVES CHRISTIANITY ITS BEGINNING. IF CHRISTIANITY IS THE FIRE, RESURRECTION IS THE SPARK THAT IGNITES THE FIRE AND GETS IT GOING. THE RESURRECTION IN THE SENSE PRODUCES CHRISTIANITY, IT CAUSES IT TO COME TO BE. CERTAINLY OUR PRACTICES OF CONTEMPORARY CHRISTIANITY OF MEETING ON SUNDAY APPARENTLY IS SOMETHING THEY BEGAN DOING BECAUSE THAT WAS THE DAY THEY FIRST MET JESUS IN A RESURRECTED FORM. OUR PRACTICE OF BAPTISM WHERE PEOPLE ARE IMMERSED IN WATER AND RAISED UP; THE BIBLE WILL TELL US THAT IS A REENACTMENT OF THE DEATH AND BURIAL AND RESURRECTION OF JESUS. SO THERE ARE SOME THINGS IN CHRISTIANITY TODAY THAT EVEN REFLECT ITS IMPORTANCE IN OUR THOUGHT. AS I THINK ABOUT WHERE ELSE IT SHOWS ITSELF, EARLY IN JOHN’S GOSPEL JOHN TALKS ABOUT A MOMENT WHEN JESUS IS WALKING IN THE TEMPLE (CHAPTER 2), HIS DISCIPLES ARE LOOKING AROUND AT THE TEMPLE AND JESUS SAYS THIS IN CHAPTER 2, VERSE 19, “DESTROY THIS TEMPLE AND I WILL RAISE IT AGAIN IN THREE DAYS.” FOR THE JEWS THAT ARE PRESENT AND HEAR HIM SAY THIS, AND THEY THINK ARE YOU CRAZY. IT HAS TAKEN 46 YEARS TO BUILD THIS TEMPLE AND YOU ARE GOING TO RAISE IT IN THREE DAYS? BUT JOHN’S GOSPEL REMINDS US THAT THE TEMPLE JESUS WAS SPEAKING OF WAS HIS BODY. AS HE WAS RAISED FROM THE DEAD HIS DISCIPLES RECALLED WHAT HE HAD SAID AND THEY BELIEVED THE SCRIPTURE AND THE WORDS THAT HE HAD SPOKEN. AND SO JESUS PREDICTED HIS RESURRECTION. HE WILL SAY IT AGAIN IN CHAPTER 11 THAT HE IS THE RESURRECTION AND THE LIFE, WHICH IS A VERY POWERFUL CLAIM FOR A PERSON TO MAKE. SO THE RESURRECTION PRODUCES CHRISTIANITY; IT WAS, IN FACT, PREDICTED BY JESUS. THE ROMAN AND JEWISH AUTHORITIES TRIED TO PROHIBIT HIS RESURRECTION IN THE SENSE OF PLACING A GUARD AT HIS TOMB. IN THE GOSPEL OF MATTHEW, CHAPTER 27 TELLS OF THE PLAN FOR JEWISH AUTHORITIES AND THE COLLABORATION BETWEEN JEWISH AUTHORITIES AND ROMAN AUTHORITIES TO PLACE A GUARD AT JESUS’ TOMB SO THAT NO ONE COULD STEAL HIS BODY AND CLAIM THAT HE HAD BEEN RAISED FROM THE DEAD. THEY WERE AWARE OF HIS SAYING THAT HE WAS GOING TO BE RAISED FROM THE DEAD. THEY DIDN’T BELIEVE IT WOULD HAPPEN, SO THEY TRIED TO PLACE A GUARD THERE TO KEEP HIS BODY FROM BEING STOLEN. WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE FACT THAT WHEN YOU OPEN UP JOHN CHAPTER 20 AND READ THAT SOME FRIENDS OF JESUS COME TO HIS TOMB TO FURTHER PREPARE IT FOR A LONGER TERM BURIAL, THEY FIND THAT HE IS GONE AND IS NOT THERE. SO EITHER WE HAVE TO ASSUME THEY WENT TO THE WRONG TOMB, WHICH IS HIGHLY IMPROBABLE SINCE THEY HAD BEEN THERE TWO DAYS BEFORE OR THAT JESUS NEVER DIED; HE SIMPLY FAINTED AND WAS RESUSCITATED WHILE IN THE TOMB. THAT SEEMS VERY UNLIKELY SIMPLY BECAUSE THERE WERE ROMAN SOLDIERS PRESENT WHOSE JOB IT WAS TO BE SURE THAT CRIMINALS LIKE JESUS WERE CRUCIFIED AND KILLED. IN FACT IT SAYS THAT THEY STUCK JESUS WITH A SPEAR TO ENSURE IT. OR WE COULD ASSUME THAT SOMEONE STOLE THE BODY. EITHER HIS DISCIPLES STOLE IT OR MAYBE A THIEF STOLE IT OR IN FACT THE JEWISH AND ROMAN AUTHORITIES TOOK THE BODY. NONE OF THESE SEEM LIKELY. THE AUTHORITIES HAD PLACED THIS GUARD THERE TO KEEP THIEVES AND HIS DISCIPLES FROM STEALING IT AND, IN FACT, THEY WOULD NOT HAVE WANTED TO STEAL IT AND HIDE BECAUSE THERE WANTING TO STOP THIS RUMOR THAT HE HAD BEEN RAISED FROM THE DEAD. SO IT SEEMS THAT THE ONLY EXPLANATION FOR THE EMPTY TOMB IS THE FACT THAT GOD RAISED JESUS FROM DEAD. THAT IS WHAT HAPPEN. THAT CERTAINLY EXPLAINS WHERE CHRISTIANITY CAME FROM. I OFTEN TELL MY STUDENTS HERE AT THE UNIVERSITY THIS THAT UNLESS THE RESURRECTION HAPPENED THERE WOULD HAVE BEEN NO MESSENGERS TO SPREAD THE NEWS OF JESUS. THEY WERE ALL VERY FRIGHTENED AT THE MOMENT OF HIS DEATH. THERE WOULD HAVE BEEN NO MESSENGERS AND THERE WOULD HAVE BEEN NO MESSAGE. IT WAS THE EARLIEST CHRISTIAN MESSAGE THAT THIS JESUS THAT WAS CRUCIFIED WAS IN FACT THE SON OF GOD, DIED FOR OUR SINS, RAISED BACK TO LIFE, AND NOW HAS RETURNED TO GOD TO INTERCEDE FOR US UNTIL HE COMES FOR US AGAIN. SO IT’S A VERY IMPORTANT THEME NOT ONLY CHRISTIANITY, BUT IN JOHN’S GOSPEL AND WHAT HE DEVELOPS IN A NUMBER OF WAYS. THIS IS JUST AN OVERVIEW OF IT. MIKE: DR. COCHRAN, AS WE FINISH OUR TIME TOGETHER TODAY, PERHAPS IT WOULD BE A GOOD IDEA FOR YOU TO SUGGEST TO OUR LISTENING FRIENDS SOME PASSAGES THEY MAY WANT TO REVIEW AND STUDY IF THEY HAVE AN INTEREST IN THIS IDEA OF RESURRECTION. CAN YOU SUGGEST A PASSAGE OR TWO IN SCRIPTURE THAT THEY MAY WANT TO LOOK AT? DR. COCHRAN: YES I WOULD. IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO DO IT IN THE GOSPEL OF JOHN, WE LOOKED AT JOHN CHAPTER 2, VERSES 19-21. THERE IS A STORY IN JOHN CHAPTER 11 WHEN JESUS CLAIMS TO BE THE RESURRECTION. AND THEN CERTAINLY THE LAST TWO CHAPTERS OF JOHN’S GOSPEL, CHAPTERS 20 AND 21, WHERE YOU CAN READ ABOUT HIS RESURRECTION AND ALSO ABOUT HIS APPEARANCES TO HIS DISCIPLES AFTER HIS RESURRECTION. THERE ARE FOUR APPEARANCES RECORDED THERE IN JOHN’S GOSPEL. OTHER PASSAGES WOULD INCLUDE ACTS CHAPTER 2:22-24 AND ALSO I CORINTHIANS 15, JUST ABOUT THE ENTIRE CHAPTER. SOMEBODY ONCE SAID THIS, “THAT IF JESUS HAS NOT BEEN RAISED FROM THE DEAD THEN CHRISTIANITY SHOULD BE IGNORED. BUT IF JESUS HAS BEEN RAISED, THEN CHRISTIANITY MUST NOT BE IGNORED.” AND I THINK THAT CHRISTIANITY REALLY STANDS OR FALLS WITH THE RESURRECTION OF JESUS FROM THE DEAD. IF LISTENERS LIKE I AM THINK THIS IS ALMOST TOO DIFFICULT TO BELIEVE, THEN I THINK THEY ARE ON THE RIGHT TRACK. BECAUSE IT’S NOT LIKE ANYTHING IN OUR OWN EXPERIENCE, BUT I THINK IT’S AN INEVITABLE CONCLUSION TO TRY TO FIGURE OUT WHERE CHRISTIANITY CAME FROM. I CAN’T EXPLAIN THE PRESENCE OF CHRISTIANITY WITHOUT THE HISTORICAL REALITY OF THE RESURRECTION OF CHRIST FROM THE DEAD.
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What John Says About Incarnation MIKE: TODAY WE WANT TO TALK ABOUT THIS IDEA OF INCARNATION. IT’S SOMETHING OF A UNIQUE CONCEPT. A CONCEPT THAT IS UNIQUE TO THE CHRISTIAN FAITH AND CERTAINLY HERE IN THE BOOK OF JOHN. OUT OF ALL THE BIBLE BOOKS, THE BOOK OF JOHN TREATS THIS IDEA OF INCARNATION A BIT DIFFERENTLY FROM MOST OF THE OTHER BOOKS AND CERTAINLY DIFFERENTLY FROM THE FIRST THREE OF THE GOSPELS – MATTHEW, MARK AND LUKE. TELL US A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THIS IDEA OF INCARNATION. DR. COCHRAN: FIRST I’D LIKE TO SAY THIS. CHRISTIANS HAVE TYPICALLY FOCUSED ON THE CRUCIFIXION OF JESUS AND THE RESURRECTION OF JESUS, SOMETHING WE TALKED ABOUT YESTERDAY. THIS CONCEPT IS VERY, VERY IMPORTANT AND IS RIGHT UP THERE IN IMPORTANCE WITH THOSE OTHER TWO. IN FACT ONE OF MY FAVORITE TEXTS IN ALL OF THE BIBLE IS JOHN CHAPTER 1, VERSES 1-18. SCHOLARS TYPICALLY CALL THIS THE PROLOGUE OF JOHN, WHICH MEANS IT’S KIND OF AN INTRODUCTORY PASSAGE TO THE ENTIRE BOOK AND I’D LIKE FOR US TO FOCUS ON FOUR VERSES IN PARTICULAR. IT BEGINS BY SAYING, “IN THE BEGINNING WAS THE WORD AND THE WORD WAS WITH THE GOD AND THE WORD WAS GOD.” IT’S UNFORTUNATE THAT WE DON’T HAVE IN THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE AN EQUIVALENT OF WHAT JOHN IS USING HERE IN THE ORIGINAL LANGUAGE OF THE NEW TESTAMENT SCRIPTURE WHICH IS GREEK. THE WORD “LOGOS” OUR ENGLISH WORD “LOGO” COMES FROM THAT WHICH MEANS A SIGN OR SYMBOL OF SOMETHING. BUT “LOGOS” IN THE ANCIENT WORLD IS A VERY POWERFUL WORD, A VERY POWERFUL SYMBOL. ANCIENT GREEKS HAD THE NOTION THAT THE WORLD WAS, IN FACT, ALWAYS IN MOTION, ALWAYS IN FLUX AND WHEN THEY AFFIRMED THAT THE IMMEDIATE QUESTION WAS, “IF THE WORLD WAS ALWAYS IN MOTION, ALWAYS IN CONSTANT MOVEMENT, WAS IS IT THAT KEEPS THE WORLD IN AN ORDERLY CONDITION? WHAT KEEPS THE WORLD FROM BEING TOTAL CHAOS?” THEY TALKED ABOUT THAT POWER THAT HELD THE WORLD IN ORDER AND KEPT THE WORLD FROM BEING CHAOTIC, THEY TALKED ABOUT THAT POWER AS BEING “LOGOS”. ON ANCIENT GREEK WRITER TALKED ABOUT THE FACT THAT BECAUSE THE WORLD IS ALWAYS IN MOTION YOU CAN NEVER STEP IN THE SAME RIVER TWICE. BECAUSE NO MATTER HOW QUICKLY YOU PUT YOUR FOOT IN THE RIVER AND PULL IT OUT AND PUT IT BACK IN, THE RIVER HAS MOVED AND THEREFORE HAS CHANGED AND THEREFORE TECHNICALLY ISN’T THE SAME RIVER. THAT IS HOW THEY THOUGHT ABOUT THE WORLD. THE WORD “LOGOS” WAS USED BY THE GREEKS TO REPRESENT THAT FORCE IN THE WORLD, THAT ORGANIZING PRINCIPLE THAT KEPT THE WORLD IN RUNNING ORDER. ANCIENT JEWS, ON THE OTHER HAND, UNDERSTOOD THIS CONCEPT WORD TO REPRESENT THE MIND OF GOD, OR THE WISDOM OF GOD. SO WHETHER YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT ANCIENT GREEKS OR THE JEWISH PEOPLE TO WHOM JOHN IS WRITING, CLEARLY IT’S A VERY POWERFUL WORD. WE JUST SIMPLY USE THE ENGLISH WORD TO SYMBOLIZE IT AND I THINK PROBABLY WE LOSE SOMETHING THERE IN THE TRANSLATION. IT’S A VERY POWERFUL NOTION. IN THE BEGINNING WAS THIS FORCE, THIS LOGOS. AND THE LOGOS WAS WITH GOD AND IN FACT THE LOGOS WAS GOD. HE WAS WITH GOD IN THE BEGINNING. IT’S A MASCULINE PRONOUN SO IT’S GOING TO REFER TO A PERSON EVENTUALLY. JOHN WILL MAKE THIS KNOWN THAT THIS IS JESUS. I AM PARTICULARLY INTERESTED IN THE NEXT VERSE, VERSE 14, IT’S NOT THE NEXT VERSE IN THE TEXT BUT THE ONE I’D LIKE TO LOOK AT. IT SAYS, “THE WORD BECAME FLESH”. THAT’S WHAT I’D LIKE US TO THINK ABOUT FOR A MOMENT. THE WORD, THE CONCEPT BECAME FLESH AND MADE HIS DWELLING AMONG US. WE REFER IN THEOLOGY TO THIS MOMENT AS THE INCARNATION, THAT WORD LITERALLY MEANS (I THINK IT’S A BACKGROUND) TO ENTER THE FLESH. IF YOU ARE FAMILIAR WITH CARNIVOROUS ANIMALS, FLESH- EATING ANIMALS. THE WORD BECAME FLESH. SO AT THE MOMENT OF JESUS’ BIRTH, THE INCARNATION OCCURS. I THINK, THEOLOGICALLY, THAT THE CONCEPT OF INCARNATION IS BIGGER THAN THE BIRTH OF JESUS; THAT IS WHEN IT HAPPENED. HERE IS WHAT I AM AMAZED AT, WE’RE TALKING ABOUT THE GOD THAT MADE THE WHOLE WORLD AND YET IN THE MOMENT OF INCARNATION HE SOMEHOW PLACES HIMSELF IN THE WORLD. THE CREATOR BECOMES CREATED, THE VERY INVISIBLE GOD BECOMES VISIBLE. ONE WRITER HAS SAID GOD WAS GIVEN A SPLEEN AND TWO KIDNEYS AND HE MAY HAD BODY ODOR AND HE MAY AS A CHILD FELL AND SCRAPPED HIS KNEE AND MAY HAVE HIT HIS THUMB WITH A HAMMER AND MAY HAVE GOTTEN A COLD AND SOME OTHER ILLNESSES. IT’S HARD FOR US TO IMAGINE A GOD WHO IS ALL POWERFUL, MAKING HIMSELF SO VULNERABLE. THEOLOGIANS SOMETIMES TALK ABOUT THE TRANSCENDENCE OF GOD THAT GOD IS DISTANT AND FAR AWAY AND SOMEHOW UNKNOWABLE TO US. THEY ALSO TALK ABOUT GOD’S IMMINENCE, HIS NEARNESS THAT GOD IS NOT ONLY DISTANT BUT THAT GOD IS ALSO NEARBY. GOD IS NOT ONLY DIFFERENT FROM US, THAT HE HAS MADE HIMSELF LIKE US. THIS IS A VERY, VERY POWERFUL IDEA TO ME. IT’S ONE OF THE THINGS THAT MAKES ME EXCITED ABOUT THE CHRISTIAN FAITH IS THIS NOTION THAT GOD JUST DIDN’T MAKE US AND TURN HIS BACK AND LEAVE US TO OUR OWN, BUT IN FACT ENTERED THE WORLD IN THE FORM OF HIS SON JESUS AND CAME NEAR TO US. THE LAST VERSE THAT I WANTED TO LOOK AT WAS VERSE 18. “NO ONE HAS EVER SEEN GOD, BUT GOD THE ONE AND ONLY WHO WAS AT THE FATHER’S SIDE HAS MADE HIM KNOWN.” IN THIS NOTION, GOD BEING UNKNOWABLE TO US, BEING BROUGHT NEAR TO US AND BEING MADE KNOWN TO US THROUGH THIS ACT OF INCARNATION IS A TREMENDOUSLY ATTRACTIVE CONCEPT TO ME. I WANT TO KNOW MORE ABOUT A GOD WHO WOULD DO THIS. I WANT TO KNOW MORE ABOUT A GOD WHO IS SO INTERESTED IN THE AFFAIRS OF HIS CREATURES THAT HE WOULD ENTER THEIR REALM AND EXPERIENCE WHAT THEY EXPERIENCE. IT’S A VERY POWERFUL NOTION TO ME. MIKE: DR. COCHRAN, YOU MIGHT WANT TO TAKE A MOMENT TO TALK ABOUT WHAT, IN PRACTICAL TERMS, THIS INCARNATION MEANS TO THOSE OF US WHO LIVE IN THIS WORLD, ESPECIALLY TO CHRISTIAN PEOPLE. IN A PRACTICAL SENSE, WHAT DOES THE INCARNATION DO FOR US? DR. COCHRAN: WE THEOLOGANS NEED THOSE KIND OF QUESTIONS. I THINK PRACTICALLY THE INCARNATION SAYS A COUPLE OF THINGS TO US. IT SAYS FIRST OF ALL THAT GOD WANTS TO BE KNOWN BY US; THAT ONE OF THE THINGS YOU HAVE IN SCRIPTURE CONSTANTLY BEING ELUDED TO IS THE FACT THAT GOD IS IN PURSUIT OF HUMANITY. GOD IS DRAWING NEAR TO HUMANITY. GOD IS INITIATING ACTIVITY TOWARDS HUMANITY. I THINK INCARNATION SAYS THAT MORE CLEARLY THAN ANYTHING ELSE IN ALL OF SCRIPTURE. I THINK ANOTHER THAT IT SAYS IS THAT GOD UNDERSTANDS US. IN FACT, THERE IS A COUPLE OF TEXTS IN THE BIBLE BOOK OF HEBREWS CHAPTER 2, VERSES 14 AND FOLLOWING. AND CHAPTER 4, VERSUS 14 AND FOLLOWING IN THE SAME BOOK, HEBREWS. THEY TALK ABOUT THE HUMANITY OF JESUS, THAT HE UNDERSTANDS WHAT IT’S LIKE TO STRUGGLE, HE UNDERSTANDS WHAT IT’S LIKE TO BE ALONE, HE UNDERSTANDS WHAT IT’S LIKE TO BE TEMPTED TO DO EVIL AND TO HARM OTHERS. THAT’S A VERY COMFORTING THING TO KNOW AS A HUMAN BEING. THAT THE GOD THAT MADE US IN FACT IDENTIFIED WITH OUR STRUGGLES AND HAS NOT LEFT US ALONE IN THOSE STRUGGLES. IT’S A COMPLICATED THING AS TO HOW THIS IS POSSIBLE THAT JESUS CAN BE BOTH FULLY GOD AND FULLY HUMAN. SOME PEOPLE HAVE DESCRIBED IT LIKE AN APPLE. AN APPLE HAS DIFFERENT COMPONENTS; THE CORE AND SEEDS, THE MEAT AND THE SKIN, BUT IT IS ALL ONE PIECE OF FRUIT. SOME PEOPLE HAVE LOOKED TO GOD LIKE THAT. GOD IS IN THREE FORMS – THE FATHER, THE SON, THE HOLY SPIRIT – AND YET ALL ONE REALITY OF GOD. IT’S A VERY ATTRACTIVE THING THAT GOD WOULD LOVE US SO MUCH THAT HE WOULD COME NEAR TO US AND BECOME ONE OF US TO DWELL AMONG US, TO EXPERIENCE WHAT WE EXPERIENCE, AND TO LET US KNOW THAT HE UNDERSTANDS WHAT WE EXPERIENCE. MIKE: WHAT A REMARKABLE IDEA, DR. COCHRAN. WE APPRECIATE YOUR SHARING THAT WITH US. A GOD THAT WOULD LIVE ALL THAT HEAVEN HAS TO OFFER TO COME AND SHARE OUR LIVES WITH US. WE APPRECIATE YOUR BRINGING THAT TO LIFE FOR US.
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A Conversation With Jesus Christ MIKE: DR. COCHRAN, TODAY WE WANT TO MEET A PARTICULAR INDIVIDUAL WHOSE STORY IS RECORDED IN THE BOOK OF JOHN. THIS BIBLE BOOK OF JOHN IS ONE OF THE THINGS THAT IS UNIQUE ABOUT IT IS THE UNUSUAL NUMBER OF CONVERSATIONS THAT JESUS HAD WITH INDIVIDUALS. IN OTHER BOOKS OF THE BIBLE WE SEE RECORDED INSTANCES OF CONVERSATIONS OR SERMONS THAT HE DELIVERED TO LARGE GROUPS OF PEOPLE AND HIS INTERACTION WITH GROUPS OF PEOPLE, HIS DISCIPLES FOR INSTANCE. BUT IN THIS BOOK OF JOHN THERE ARE A NUMBER OF EXCHANGES WITH INDIVIDUALS THAT ARE REALLY QUITE REMARKABLE. DR. COCHRAN: THAT’S RIGHT. IT’S INTERESTING THAT GIVEN THE FACT THAT JOHN TELLS US HE KNOWS MORE ABOUT JESUS THAN HE IS ACTUALLY WRITING (THAT’S SOMETHING THAT WE LOOKED AT EARLIER – JOHN 20:30-31); HE SAID HE KNEW THAT THERE ARE MORE THINGS THAT JESUS DID. HE SEEMS TO LIMIT HIS PORTRAIT OF JESUS TO A FEW DAYS IN THE LIFE OF JESUS. MANY OF THOSE DAYS WERE TAKEN UP WITH LARGE AMOUNTS OF TIME BEING DEVOTED TO AN INDIVIDUAL. FOR INSTANCE IF YOU WOULD READ IN CHAPTER 4, JESUS TALKS WITH A WOMAN, THE CONVERSATION WITH THE SARMITAN WOMAN, PRACTICALLY CONSUMES THAT ENTIRE CHAPTER. WHAT I WANTED TO LOOK AT TODAY, VERY BRIEFLY, WAS A MAN THAT APPEARS IN THIS BOOK, BUT APPEARS NOWHERE ELSE IN THE OTHER PORTRAITS OF JESUS IN MATTHEW, MARK, AND LUKE. THIS MAN I AM REFERRING TO IS NICODEMUS. WE FIRST SEE HIM IN CHAPTER 3. “THERE WAS A MAN OF THE PHARISEES NAME NICODEMUS, A MEMBER OF THE JEWISH RULING COUNCIL.” NOW RIGHT AWAY JOHN TELLS US THAT THIS MAN NICODEMUS IS AN EDUCATED PERSON AND HAS QUITE SOME SOCIAL STATUS – A MEMBER OF THE JEWISH RULING COUNCIL, THE HIGHEST COURT IN JEWISH LIFE. HE’S A VERY PROMINENT FIGURE. IT SAYS THEN IN CHAPTER 3, VERSE 2 THAT HE CAME TO JESUS AT NIGHT. BY THE WAY, FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO ARE VERY INTERESTED IN LITERATURE AND IN LITERARY THEMES, JOHN DOES A LOT WITH LITERARY THEMES AND THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF IT HERE. THIS THEME “NIGHT” IS A VERY IMPORTANT ONE IN JOHN’S GOSPEL. JOHN IS NOT ONLY TIME OF DAY, HE’S ALSO TRYING TO SAY SOMETHING THEOLOGICAL; HE’S ALSO GIVING US SOME CLUE ABOUT THIS PERSON NICODEMUS. WE THINK THAT “NIGHT AND DARKNESS” ARE SYMBOLS OF EVIL OR AT LEAST SYMBOLS OF RESISTANCE TO JESUS. FOR INSTANCE, THE BOOK EARLY ON SAYS THIS (JOHN 1:4) "IN THIS ONE, WHICH IS JESUS, WAS LIFE AND THE LIFE WAS THE LIGHT OF MEN. THE LIGHT SHINES IN THE DARKNESS, BUT THE DARKNESS HAS NOT UNDERSTOOD IT.” SO LIGHT AND DARKNESS ARE USED IN CONTRASTING WAYS. WE ARE LEARN IN CHAPTER 13 WHEN JESUS IS WITH HIS DISCIPLES FOR THE LAST TIME AND JUDAS, ONE OF HIS DISCIPLES, GOES OUT TO INITIATE AND FULFILL A PLOT TO TURN JESUS OVER TO THE AUTHORITIES. IT SAYS THAT WHEN JUDAS LEFT THE PRESENCE OF JESUS, JOHN SAID, “IT WAS NIGHT.” PROBABLY HE’S DOING MORE THAN SIMPLY NOTING TIME OF DAY. HE’S PROBABLY TRYING TO SAY SOMETHING ABOUT RESISTANCE TO JESUS, EVIL IS PRESENT AND AT WORK. YOU SEE IT ALSO IN THE EARLY VERSES OF JOHN CHAPTER 9. I THINK WHAT HE IS DOING HERE IS THAT NICODEMUS COMES AT NIGHT. HISTORICALLY, WITH THE MOMENT THAT JESUS IS INTERACTING WITH HIM IT MAY BE SIMPLY BECAUSE HE DOES NOT WANT PEOPLE TO KNOW HE’S COMING TO JESUS. JOHN USES THAT THEME OF “NIGHT” IN A THEOLOGICAL WAY. HE COMES AND SAYS, “RABBI, WE KNOW YOU ARE A TEACHER WHO HAS COME FROM GOD. FOR NO ONE CAN PERFORM THE MIRACULOUS SIGNS YOU ARE DOING UNLESS GOD WERE WITH HIM.” THEN HE AND JESUS ENGAGED IN QUITE A CONVERSATION. ONE OF THE THINGS THAT INTRIGUES ME ABOUT THIS MAN NICODEMUS IS THAT HE SEEMS TO HAVE QUITE A LOT. HE PROBABLY IS WELL TO DO, HE CERTAINLY HAS SOCIAL STANDING AND RESPECT, HE’S A MEMBER OF THE JEWISH RULING COUNCIL, AND YET THERE IS SOMETHING ELSE THAT THOSE POSITIONS OF STATUS HAVE NOT SATISFIED HIS LIFE. PERHAPS HE SENSES IN JESUS SOMETHING THAT HE NEEDS IN HIS LIFE. SO HE COMES TO JESUS EVEN INITIALLY UNDER THE HIDDENNESS OF NIGHT. THIS IS THE FIRST TIME THAT JESUS AND NICODEMUS MEET EACH OTHER. ONE OF THE THINGS THAT INTERESTS ME ABOUT NICODEMUS IS YOU SEE A KIND OF DEVELOPMENT IN HIM AND IN HIS CHARACTER IN THIS BOOK. AS I MENTIONED, HE ONLY APPEARS IN THIS GOSPEL AND YET HE APPEARS THREE TIMES. EACH TIME YOU SEE HIM YOU SEE A SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT PERSON. THE NEXT TIME YOU SEE NICODEMUS IS IN JOHN CHAPTER 7. HERE THE JEWISH TEMPLE AUTHORITIES HAVE SENT GUARDS TO ARREST JESUS AND WHEN THEY COME BACK AND DON’T HAVE JESUS WITH HIM, THEY QUESTION THE GUARDS AS TO WHY THEY HAVE COME BACK EMPTY HANDED. “WHY DIDN’T YOU BRING HIM IN?” JOHN CHAPTER 7, VERSE 45 SAYS. AND THE GUARD SAID, “NO ONE EVER SPOKE THE WAY THAT JESUS THIS MAN DOES.” “YOU MEAN HE HAS DECEIVED YOU ALSO,” THE PHARISEES RETORTED. “HAS ANY OF THE RULERS OF THE PHARISEES BELIEVED IN HIM. NO! BUT THIS MOB THAT KNOWS NOTHING OF THE LAW THERE’S A CURSE ON THEM.” SO WHAT THEY’RE SAYING IS, EVERYBODY WHO IS EDUCATED, EVERYBODY WHO KNOWS ANYTHING, KNOWS THAT JESUS SHOULDN’T BE LISTENED TO. ONLY THOSE PEOPLE WHO ARE UNEDUCATED, ONLY THOSE PEOPLE WHO ARE IGNORANT WOULD, IN FACT, BE THE ONES WHO ARE FOLLOWING JESUS. BUT THEN THE VERY NEXT THING YOU HEAR IS IN VERSE 50. NICODEMUS, AND JOHN WANTS US TO KNOW IT’S THE SAME PERSON, WHO HAD GONE TO JESUS EARLIER AND WHO WAS ONE OF THEIR OWN NUMBER (KIND OF SOME HUMOR HERE THAT THE PHARISEES WHEN THE GUARDS COME BACK SAYS, “HAS ANY ONE OF US EVER BELIEVED IN JESUS. NO!”). BUT THEN JOHN SAYS THERE IS NICODEMUS ONE OF THEIR OWN NUMBER. WHO ASKS THIS, “DOES OUR LAW CONDEMN ANYONE WITHOUT FIRST HEARING HIM TO FIND OUT WHAT HE IS FIRST DOING? BUT THEY REPLIED, “ARE YOU FROM GALILEE, TOO. LOOK INTO IT AND YOU’LL FIND THAT A PROPHET DOES NOT COME OUT OF GALILEE.” SO THEY CHASTISE OR SCOLD NICODEMUS FOR THIS. IT’S INTERESTING THAT NICODEMUS EVEN SPEAKS UP. HERE HE IS WITH HIS PEERS AND IF THEY FIND OUT THAT HE HAS AN ALLEGIANCE TO JESUS, IF THEY FIND OUT THAT HE HAS EVEN GONE TO JESUS TO INQUIRE OF HIM, THEY MIGHT EVEN COST NICODEMUS HIS STANDING. BUT HERE HE IS, ONE OF THEIR OWN NUMBER, NOT REALLY FULLY COMING OUT AND CONFESSING LOYALTY OR ALLEGIANCE TO JESUS, BUT TRYING TO STAND UP FOR JESUS THROUGH PERHAPS THE MEANS OR RULES OF ORDER OR PROPER LEGAL PROCEDURE. THEN VERY BRIEFLY, THE LAST TIME YOU SEE NICODEMUS IN THIS GOSPEL IS IN CHAPTER 19 AFTER THE DEATH OF JESUS HE COMES IN VERSE 38 AND FOLLOWING WITH ANOTHER MAN, JOSEPH OF ARIMATHEA. THEY COME OUT AND PUBLICLY ASK FOR THE BODY OF JESUS SO THAT THEY MIGHT GIVE IT A PROPER BURIAL. INTERESTINGLY, JOSEPH IS INTRODUCED IN THIS WAY. HE WAS A DISCIPLE OF JESUS BUT SECRETLY BECAUSE HE FEARED THE JEWS. WITH PILOT’S PERMISSION HE CAME AND TOOK THE BODY AWAY. HE WAS ACCOMPANIED BY NICODEMUS, AGAIN JOHN WANTS YOU TO KNOW IT’S THE SAME ONE. THE MAN WHO HAD EARLIER VISITED JESUS AT NIGHT. IN SOME WAYS YOU SEE A PROGRESS IN NICODEMUS. HE COMES AT NIGHT INITIALLY, TENTATIVE, UNSURE; THEN HE COMES WITH HIS PEERS IN CHAPTER 7 AND IN A WAY HE STICKS UP FOR JESUS BUT NOT IN A WAY THAT WOULD PERSONALLY COST HIM ANYTHING. BUT WHEN YOU SEE HIM THE LAST NIGHT (CHAPTER 19) HE SEEMS TO HAVE NO FEAR ABOUT WHAT THIS MIGHT COST HIM. HE COMES OUT AND PUBLICLY AND ALIGNS HIMSELF WITH JESUS. IT’S A GREAT CONTRAST TO THEIR FIRST INTERACTION IN THE SILENCE AND IN THE HIDDENNESS OF NIGHT. MIKE: DR. COCHRAN, A COUPLE OF THINGS HERE THAT LEAP OUT AT ME THAT I WOULD LIKE YOU SPEAK TO FOR A MOMENT. THINGS I THINK WOULD BE IMPORTANT FOR OUR LISTENING FRIENDS TO CONCENTRATE ON. FIRST OF ALL, THE FACT THAT IT IS OKAY TO QUESTION. NICODEMUS HAD SOME QUESTIONS FOR JESUS, TRYING TO DISCERN EXACTLY WHO HE WAS AND WHAT HIS RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD OUR FATHER WAS. SECOND, A JOURNEY OF FAITH IS IN FACT JUST THAT. IT IS A JOURNEY, IT IS A PROGRESSION THAT A PERSON NEEDS TO HAVE TIME TO COME TO THEIR OWN UNDERSTANDING, BOTH INTELLECTUALLY AND EMOTIONALLY OF JUST EXACTLY WHO JESUS CHRIST IS. DR. COCHRAN: VERY GOOD OBSERVATIONS. FAITH HAS OFTEN BEEN COMPARED TO THAT OF A MUSCLE. THAT THE ONLY WAY YOU BUILD A STRONG MUSCLE IN YOUR ARM OR LEG IS BY EXERCISING. IN FACT, THE MORE RESISTANCE THAT THE MUSCLE HAS TO OVERCOME TO LIFT SOMETHING, A WEIGHT LIKE BODYBUILDERS MIGHT LIFT, THE STRONGER THAT MUSCLE BECOMES. FAITH IS LIKE THAT, IT IS BY DEFINITION ACHIEVED OR GAINED THROUGH A PROCESS OF STRUGGLE. ALSO YOU HAVE NAME THE JOURNEY THAT IS A PROCESS, IT’S NOT OVERNIGHT AND IT’S NOT QUICK, BUT IT’S SOMETHING THAT IS ONGOING, WE CONTINUE TO EXPLORE, WE CONTINUE TO QUESTION AND LISTEN AND TRY TO DISCERN THE PERSON OF JESUS AND THE WILL OF GOD FOR OUR LIVES AS HE REVEALS IT IN THIS GOSPEL. THAT’S ONE OF THE THINGS THAT INTERESTS ME ABOUT NICODEMUS. HE IS A PERSON WHO IN SOME WAYS SOCIALLY HAS MUCH, BUT SPIRITUALLY STILL SENSES A VOID. THAT SEEMS TO BE WHAT PROMPTS HIM TO COME TO JESUS INITIALLY. THEN WE GET TO SEE HIM MAKE THIS JOURNEY OF TRYING TO WEIGH WHAT THIS MIGHT MEAN FOR HIS LIFE IF HE COMES OUT AND PUBLICLY ALIGNS HIMSELF WITH JESUS. IF HIS FRIENDS AND FAMILY FIND OUT ABOUT THIS, WHAT MIGHT IT MEAN FOR HIM? YOU ALMOST GET TO SEE HIM WRESTLE WITH THAT AND STRUGGLE WITH THAT AND I IDENTIFY WITH THAT STRUGGLE. MIKE: DR. COCHRAN, SOME REALLY REMARKABLE THOUGHTS.
Would you like to return to the top of the page? MIKE: DR. COCHRAN, WE CERTAINLY APPRECIATE YOUR TAKING TIME TO SHARE YOUR KNOWLEDGE WITH. WE WANTED TO TALK TODAY ABOUT SOME OF THE CLAIMS THAT JESUS CHRIST HAS MADE OVER THE YEARS, OVER THE CENTURIES THERE HAVE BEEN A GREAT DEAL OF DIFFERENCE OF OPINION OF WHO EXACTLY JESUS CHRIST WAS. ONE OF THE MOST INTERESTING STUDIES I HAVE EVER BEEN ENGAGED IN IS A STUDY OF THIS IDEA OF WHAT JESUS HAD TO SAY ABOUT HIMSELF, THE THINGS HE CLAIMED FOR HIMSELF. HERE IN THE BOOK OF JOHN, SHARE WITH US A BIT ABOUT WHAT IT WAS JESUS HAD TO SAY ABOUT HIMSELF AND HIS MISSION. DR. COCHRAN: GLAD TO DO THAT. FIRST LET ME SAY THIS, THERE IS A COMMON PERCEPTION THAT HERE IN THE UNITED STATED AND AS I HAVE TRAVELLED IN EUROPE AND SOME IN SOUTH AMERICA, I’VE SEEN IT THERE AS WELL, IT GOES SOMETHING LIKE THIS. THIS IS A VERY COMMON PERCEPTION. THAT JESUS WAS A GOOD MAN, BUT HE WASN’T GOD. THAT’S PROBABLY NOT THE PERSPECTIVE ALL PERSONS SHARE THAT AREN’T CHRISTIANS, BUT IT’S A VERY COMMON ONE. I AM TROUBLED BY THAT PERCEPTION SIMPLY BECAUSE OF SOMETHING THAT THE GOSPEL OF JOHN RECORDS. I’M LOOKING AT A TEXT FROM THIS BOOK (JOHN 5:16-18) WHERE THIS WAS RECORDED, BECAUSE JESUS WAS DOING THESE THINGS ON THE SABBATH (NOW THESE THINGS ARE HE HEALED A MAN EARLIER IN THE CHAPTER WHO WAS UNABLE TO WALK. JESUS MADE HIM ABLE TO DO SO.) BUT HE WAS DOING THESE THINGS ON THE SABBATH AND THE JEWS PERSECUTED HIM. THE SABBATH WAS TO BE A DAY OF NO WORK OR NOT VERY MUCH PHYSICAL EFFORT EXTENDED AND SO THE JEWS ARE PERSECUTING JESUS AS THEY PERCEIVE HE IS BREAKING THE SABBATH. SO JESUS SAID THIS, “MY FATHER (REFERENCE TO GOD) IS ALWAYS AT HIS WORK TO THIS VERY DAY AND I, TOO, AM WORKING.” HERE IS WHAT I THINK IS SO INTERESTING. “FOR THIS REASON THE JEWS TRIED ALL THE HARDER TO KILL HIM. NOT ONLY WAS HE BREAKING THE SABBATH, BUT HE WAS EVEN CALLING GOD HIS OWN FATHER, MAKING HIMSELF EQUAL WITH GOD.” SO THERE ARE REALLY TWO REASONS HERE THAT THE JEWS, AND I WOULD REITERATE THIS, THERE APPARENTLY ARE A FEW JEWISH LEADERS WHO ARE OPPOSED TO JESUS, NOT ALL JEWISH PEOPLE. BUT THAT THESE JEWISH LEADERS ARE TRYING TO KILL JESUS FOR TWO REASONS. FIRST OF ALL, HE’S BREAKING THE SABBATH. IN THE OLD TESTAMENT BOOK OF NUMBERS CHAPTER 15, YOU CAN READ ABOUT AN OLD LAW PRECEDENT IN THE LAW OF MOSES FOR PUNISHING PEOPLE WHO DELIBERATELY AND BLATANTLY BROKE THE SABBATH WITHOUT REGARD FOR GOD’S LAW. IT WAS POSSIBLE TO PUNISH THOSE PEOPLE BY DEATH. THE SECOND THING THAT THEY ARE ANGRY WITH JESUS ABOUT IS THAT HE IS CALLING GOD HIS OWN FATHER, MAKING HIMSELF EQUAL TO GOD. THIS IS SOMETHING WE CALL BLASPHEMING. IT’S TAKING GOD LIGHTLY OR ELEVATING MAN’S STATUS TO BE EQUAL WITH GOD. THIS ALSO WAS PUNISHABLE BY DEATH ACCORDING TO THE JEWISH LAW. WHAT INTERESTS ME MOST ABOUT THIS IS THESE PEOPLE ARE ENEMIES OF JESUS AND YET THEY ACKNOWLEDGE THAT HE IS CLAIMING TO BE GOD. WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT CURRENT PERCEPTION THAT IS VERY COMMON THAT PEOPLE HAVE OF JESUS, THAT HE WAS A GOOD MAN, BUT NOT GOD, ONE OF THE THINGS I DON’T THINK THAT PERSPECTIVE TAKES INTO ACCOUNT SIGNIFICANTLY ENOUGH IS THAT JESUS CLAIMS TO BE GOD AND EVEN HIS ENEMIES BELIEVE THAT HE IS SAYING THAT. THEY DON’T WANT HIM TO BE GOD, THEY DON’T BELIEVE THAT HE IS GOD, BUT THEY DO HEAR HIM SAY THAT HE’S CLAIMING EQUALITY WITH GOD. IF THAT’S CASE, IT DOESN’T SEEM TO ME THAT JESUS CAN QUALIFY AS A GOOD PERSON IF HE’S LYING ABOUT HIS BASIC IDENTITY. I BELIEVE IT WAS C. S. LEWIS THAT FIRST POSED THE QUESTION, “WAS JESUS LIAR, LUNATIC OR LORD” WHEN HE MAKES HIS CLAIMS TO BE GOD. I WOULD LIKE THE READERS TO ADD A FOURTH WORD TO THOSE. THE WORDS “LEGEND, LIAR, LUNATIC OR LORD”. BY LEGEND I MEAN SOMEONE WHO DIDN’T REALLY EXIST OR WHO HAS BECOME SOMETHING OTHER THAN WHAT HE REALLY WAS. LIAR IS SOMEBODY WHO KNOWS SOMETHING TO BE TRUE AND FALSIFIES IT. LUNATIC I MEAN TO REFER TO THE FACT THAT JESUS OR A PERSON MAY HAVE BEEN SORT OF MENTALLY DISTURBED AND REALLY UNAWARE OF THEIR TRUE IDENTITY. AND LORD SYMBOLIZES A TERM TO BE EQUIVALENT WITH GOD. WHAT I PROPOSING IS, WHETHER WE CONSIDER JESUS’S CLAIM, HIS PRIMARY CLAIM THAT GOT HIM INTO SO MUCH TROUBLE, AND THE PRIMARY CLAIM THAT CHRISTIANS MAKE IS THAT HE WAS GOD. WHEN YOU LOOK AT ALL THE ALTERNATIVES, EITHER JESUS NEVER CLAIMED TO BE GOD OR HE CLAIMED TO BE GOD AND HIS CLAIMS WERE FALSE OR HE CLAIMED TO BE GOD BECAUSE HE WAS GOD. FIRST IF JESUS NEVER CLAIMED TO BE GOD, HE MAY NOT HAVE CLAIMED THAT BECAUSE HE NEVER LIVED OR NEVER WAS A HISTORICAL FIGURE. I’VE NEVER MET A PERSON WHO BELIEVED THAT. I’VE DONE SOME READING IN SOME JOURNALS OF PEOPLE WHO AFFIRM THAT, BUT THERE IS SIMPLY TOO MUCH EVIDENCE OUTSIDE OF THE BIBLE EVEN TO INDICATE THAT JESUS LIVED IN THE PERIOD THAT HE DID. I’VE JUST NEVER MET MANY PEOPLE WHO HAVE DONE THAT MUCH STUDY WHO WOULD MAKE THAT CLAIM. ANOTHER POSSIBILITY IS THAT HE LIVED, BUT HE NEVER CLAIMED TO BE GOD AND THAT HIS FOLLOWERS, HIS DISCIPLES, OR THE GOSPEL WRITERS, PEOPLE LIKE JOHN ARE SIMPLY MAKING UP THE CLAIM THAT HE WAS GOD. THE PROBLEM I HAVE WITH THIS CLAIM IS THAT THESE DISCIPLES, THESE WRITERS WILL RISK THEIR LIVES FOR THEIR BELIEF THAT JESUS WAS GOD. NOW IT’S ONE THING TO RISK YOUR LIFE AND GIVE YOUR LIFE AS WE’VE SEEN SOME RELIGIOUS LEADERS ABLE TO DO TO PERSUADE PEOPLE TO THEIR POINT OF VIEW AND LOSE THEIR LIFE FOR IT. THAT’S ONE THING TO BE DECEIVED BY RELIGIOUS LEADERS. IT’S ANOTHER THING TO DELIBERATELY KNOW THAT YOU’RE FALSIFYING SOMETHING LIKE THAT JESUS CLAIMED TO BE GOD AND PUT THAT IN A GOSPEL OR SPREAD THAT AS TRUTH WHEN IN FACT YOU KNOW IT’S NOT. WHAT’S PUZZLING ABOUT THAT IS THESE DISCIPLES WILL RISK THEIR LIVES FOR THIS AFFIRMATION. ANOTHER POSSIBILITY IS THAT JESUS CLAIMED TO BE GOD, BUT HIS CLAIMS WERE FALSE. EITHER HE KNEW THEY WERE FALSE AND IS MAKING A DELIBERATE MISREPRESENTATION OR HE DIDN’T KNOW THAT HE WASN’T GOD AND IS SIMPLY MENTALLY DISTURBED OR A LUNATIC. IT’S INTERESTING TO ME THAT IF HE KNEW HE WASN’T GOD AND KEEPS CLAIMING THAT HE IS, THAT’S VERY PUZZLING BECAUSE IT IS THIS CLAIM TO BE GOD THAT WILL ULTIMATELY GET JESUS ARRESTED. YOU WOULD THINK THAT IF JESUS KNEW HE WASN’T GOD THAT WHEN THEY ARRESTED HIM HE WOULD COME FORTH WITH THE TRUTH AND END THE WHOLE CHARADE, THE WHOLE THING. BUT OF COURSE THE REASON HE CLAIMS TO BE GOD IS BECAUSE HE IS GOD. I THINK IT’S A REALLY PLAUSIBLE PERSPECTIVE TO SAY THAT JESUS WAS A GOOD MAN, BUT WASN’T GOD IN LIGHT OF THE FACT THAT HE CLAIMS HERE IN JOHN 5 AND ELSEWHERE AND JOHN 8 IS PRETTY EVIDENT IN OTHER PLACES IN JOHN’S GOSPEL. HE’S CLAIMING TO BE GOD AND SIMPLY LEAVES THIS PERCEPTION OF HIM SIMPLY BEING A GOOD MAN BUT NOT GOD WITHOUT BASIS. MIKE: DR. COCHRAN, AS WE CLOSE OUR TIME TODAY, YOU MIGHT TO DISCUSS FOR JUST A MOMENT WHAT OPTIONS WE HAVE IN RESPONSE TO JESUS IF, IN FACT, THAT IS THE CASE IF, IN FACT, HE IS WHO HE CLAIMS TO BE. WHAT ARE OUR OPTIONS IN RESPONDING TO HIM? DR. COCHRAN: I THINK THERE ARE THREE. ONE IS BEFORE YOU EVEN MAKE AN AFFIRMATION OF JESUS TO BE WHO HE CLAIMED TO BE, ONE OPTION IS TO DISCOUNT WHAT HE SAID. I KNOW SOME PEOPLE WHO WE SAY “THEY’RE MINDS ARE MADE UP. THEY DON’T WANT TO BE CONFUSED WITH THE FACTS WITH THE DATA.” SOME PEOPLE MAKE UP THEIR MINDS SORT OF IN SPITE OF THE ACTUAL INFORMATION. SO I SUPPOSE SOME PEOPLE COULD CHOOSE TO DISMISS JESUS WITHOUT BECAUSE THEY DON’T WANT TO LISTEN TO WHAT HE SAYS. THAT’S ONE OPTION. BUT I THINK IF YOU TAKE SERIOUSLY WHAT HE SAYS, THAT HE CLAIMS TO BE GOD, AND IN FACT HIS MIRACULOUS ABILITIES AND HIS RESURRECTION FROM THE DEAD AFFIRM THAT TO BE TRUE. THEN WE EITHER HAVE THE CHOICES OF GIVING OUR LIVES TO HIM, TO SUBMIT OUR LIVES TO GOD THROUGH JESUS CHRIST, TO ACCEPT HIS BEING GOD AND BEING WILLING TO CONFORM OUR LIVES TO HIS WILL. IF WE DO THAT IT MIGHT HAVE SOME CONSEQUENCES. WE’RE GOING TO HAVE TO CHANGE. I’M GOING TO HAVE TO CHANGE THE KIND OF PERSON I AM IS WHAT THE GOSPEL TELLS ME. NOT VERY MANY PEOPLE WANT TO CHANGE SO THAT BECOMES A DIFFICULT CHOICE. THE OTHER OPTION, OF COURSE, IS TO REJECT THIS TRUTH AND SAY I KNOW HE’S REALLY GOD BUT I DON’T WANT TO HAVE MY LIFE INTERFERRED WITH. IN THAT CASE, WE SIMPLY MUST COUNT THE CONSEQUENCES. I’VE OFTEN SAID THIS, “IF CHRISTIANITY IS NOT TRUE THE BELIEVER HAS LOST NOTHING. BUT IF CHRISTIANITY IS TRUE THE PERSON WHO IS NOT A CHRISTIAN HAS LOST EVERYTHING.” I DON’T MEAN THAT TO SOUND LIKE CHRISTIANITY IS A GAMBLE OR A RISK. I SIMPLY MEAN IT TO SAY THERE IS SO MUCH DEPENDENT ON THE TRUTH OF CHRISTIANITY THAT WE WOULD DO WELL TO CONSIDER CAREFULLY THE CLAIMS JESUS MAKE AND OUR RESPONSE TO HIM. MIKE: WELL EACH DAY YOU HAVE SPOKEN TO US YOU’VE CERTAINLY GIVEN US A GREAT DEAL TO THINK ABOUT AND TODAY IS NO EXCEPTION. WE APPRECIATE YOUR SHARING YOUR THOUGHTS WITH US.
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Did Jesus Really Perform Miracles? MIKE: DR. COCHRAN WE CERTAINLY APPRECIATE YOUR SPENDING SO MUCH OF YOUR VALUABLE TIME WITH US. WE CERTAINLY HAVE ENJOYED THE SEVERAL THEMES OUT OF THE BIBLE BOOK CALLED “JOHN” YOU HAVE SHARED WITH US OVER THE LAST FEW DAYS. TODAY WE MOVE ON TO TALK ABOUT ANOTHER TOPIC THAT IS REALLY QUITE PROMINENT IN THE BIBLE BOOK OF JOHN AND THAT IS THE SUBJECT OF MIRACLES. THERE ARE A NUMBER OF MIRACLES RECORDED IN THIS BIBLE BOOK OF JOHN AND WE WANT YOU TO TALK WITH US A BIT ABOUT THOSE. ALSO, I KNOW AS SOON AS WE SAY THIS WORD “MIRACLE”, A NUMBER OF OUR LISTENING FRIENDS’ EYES ARE GOING TO ROLL BACK IN THEIR HEAD. THEY’RE GOING TO WONDER, PERHAPS FOR THE HUNDREDTH TIME, HOW REASONABLY INTELLIGENT PEOPLE CAN SUGGEST IN THIS DAY OF SCIENCE THAT ANYTHING SUCH AS MIRACLES COULD EVER HAD OCCURRED. SO YOU MIGHT WANT TO ADDRESS THAT ISSUE FIRST FOR US AND THEN TALK ABOUT THE PLACE AND PURPOSE OF MIRACLES IN THE BOOK OF JOHN. DR. COCHRAN: CERTAINLY. IT’S A VERY GOOD QUESTION; IT’S A QUESTION I MYSELF HAVE EXPERIENCED AND HAVE LIVED WITH IT A LOT THIS WAY. HOW ARE WE TO UNDERSTAND THE MIRACLES THAT ARE RECORDED IN THE BIBLICAL BOOKS IN LIGHT OF THEIR APPARENT ABSENCE FROM OUR CONTEMPORARY EXPERIENCE. IN LIGHT OF, SORT OF THE FACT, THAT THEY DENY AND CONTRADICT SCIENTIFIC, OR PERHAPS A BETTER WORD, IS OVERRIDE SCIENTIFIC PRINCIPLE AND TRUTH THAT WE CAN DEMONSTRATE AND VERIFY. I THINK THOSE ARE VERY GOOD QUESTIONS. I’D LIKE TO PROPOSE A WAY TO LOOK AT THAT AND TO UNDERSTAND THAT, THAT I HAVE FOUND HELPFUL AND PERHAPS OTHERS WILL AS WELL. YOU ALSO MENTIONED VERY CORRECTLY THAT THESE MIRACLES HAVE A PROMINENT ROLE IN JOHN’S GOSPEL. JOHN TELLS US AT THE END OF HIS BOOK (CHAPTER 20, VERSE 30) THAT HE KNOWS THAT JESUS DID MORE MIRACLES THAN HE RECORDS, BUT HE’S WRITING THESE FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. WE BELIEVE HE INCLUDES SEVEN, MAYBE EIGHT, IF YOU COUNT SOMETHING IN CHAPTER 21, BUT SEVEN DIFFERENT EVENTS IN JESUS’ MINISTRY INCLUDED IN THIS GOSPEL WHICH JOHN CALLS SIGNS, MORE THAN JUST A SUPERNATURAL ACT LIKE THE WORD MIRACLE REFERS TO. THESE, IN FACT, POINT TO SOMETHING BEYOND IT. I THINK JOHN INTENDS FOR THESE EVENTS, THESE MIRACULOUS DEEDS TO POINT BEYOND THEMSELVES TO THE PERSON OF JESUS CERTAINLY THAT WOULD MATCH WHAT ELSE WE KNOW ABOUT THIS GOSPEL. I’D LIKE FOR US TO JUST USE ONE EXAMPLE THAT JOHN GIVES US AS KIND OF A CASE STUDY. IN JOHN CHAPTER 2 IS THE FIRST ONE THAT IS RECORDED. IT’S A VERY INTERESTING SCENE IN SOME WAYS BECAUSE IT’S SO COMMON, IT’S SUCH A COMMON EXPERIENCE. JESUS AND HIS MOTHER AND BROTHERS HAVE BEEN INVITED TO A WEDDING; AND WE HAVE FAMILY AND FRIENDS WHO ARE MARRIED AND WE ATTEND WEDDINGS AND WE CAN ALMOST IMAGINE JESUS PARTICIPATING IN THIS WEDDING EVENT. A LITTLE MORE FORMAL DRESS, PERHAPS, MAYBE APPARENTLY IT WAS A PROLONG MEAL WITH THE WEDDING GUESTS AND WEDDING PARTY. AND THERE THEY ARE AT THIS WEDDING WHEN ALL OF A SUDDEN HIS MOTHER REPORTS TO JESUS (IN VERSE 3) THEY HAVE NO MORE WINE, THEY HAVE RUN OUT OF WINE, A VERY EMBARRASSING SITUATION NO DOUBT FOR THE HOST FAMILY. JESUS SAYS, “WHY ARE YOU TELLING ME, MY TIME HAS NOT YET COME?” WHICH IF WE HAD MORE TIME, WE’D GO INTO THAT. THE PHRASE “MY TIME HAS NOT YET COME” IS A VERY IMPORTANT ONE IN THIS GOSPEL THEOLOGICALLY AND DEMATICALLY. BUT WE’LL SKIP IT FOR NOW. BUT WE’LL SKIP IT FOR NOW. BUT HIS MOTHER, AS MOTHER’S OFTEN DO, JUST IGNORE THAT AND JUST TELLS THE SERVANT TO DO WHAT HER SON TELLS THEM TO DO. JESUS FINDS HIMSELF HAVING BEEN VOLUNTEERED TO REPAIR THIS SOCIAL EMBARRASSMENT ON THE PART OF THE HOST FAMILY. AND SO HE SEES NEARBY (VERSE 6) SIX STONE WATER JARS, THE KIND USED BY THE JEWS FOR CEREMONIAL WASHING, EACH HOLDING FROM 20-30 GALLONS. HE TOLD THE SERVANTS OF THE WEDDING, “FILL THE JARS WITH WATER SO THEY ARE FULL TO THE VERY TOP. AND THEN DRAW SOME OUT AND TAKE IT TO THE MASTER OF THE BANQUET.” AND THEY DID SO. VERSE 9 SAYS THAT WHEN THE MASTER OF THE BANQUET, THE PERSON IN CHARGE OF THE FESTIVITIES, TASTED THE WATER AND REALIZED THAT IT HAD BEEN TURNED INTO WINE. HE SAID, “THIS IS REALLY SOMETHING.” EVERYBODY USUALLY BRINGS OUT THE BEST WINE FIRST, THEN AFTER THE GUESTS HAVE HAD TOO MUCH TO DRINK, THEY BRING OUT THE CHEAP STUFF. HE SAID, “YOU HAVE SAVED THE BEST FOR NOW.” THIS WILL NO DOUBT GO DOWN AS A REMARKABLE MOMENT IN THE SOCIAL HISTORY OF THIS COMMUNITY IN CANA. SO, IN FACT, JESUS WOWS THEM IN SOME WAYS WITH THIS MIRACLE, BUT I THINK JOHN INTENDS AS HE INDICATES IN VERSE 11 FOR US TO SEE IT IN A SLIGHTLY ADDITIONAL LIGHT. HE SAYS, “THIS THE FIRST OF HIS MIRACULOUS SIGNS JESUS PERFORMED IN CANA OF GALILEE. HE THUS REVEALED HIS GLORY (WE’LL SAY MORE ABOUT WHAT THAT MIGHT MEAN) AND HIS DISCIPLES PUT THEIR FAITH IN HIM.” IT’S INTERESTING TO ME THAT MIRACLES FOR THOSE WHO SEE THEM FIRST HAND OFTEN CAUSE PEOPLE TO PUT THEIR FAITH IN HIM, SO CLEARLY YOU CAN READ ABOUT CONTEMPORARIES OF JESUS WHO SAW HIS MIRACLES AND DIDN’T PUT THEIR FAITH IN HIM. THERE IS NOTHING NECESSARILY POWERFUL ABOUT THE MIRACLES TO CAUSE A PERSON TO BELIEVE AGAINST THEIR WILL. SO IN SOME WAYS IT’S ONE THING WORTH NOTING THAT WE HAVE MORE POWER IN OUR WILL THEN EVEN MIRACLES HAVE. WE CAN CHOOSE WHETHER OR NOT TO ACCEPT THEM AS TRUE REALITIES OR NOT. THE STATEMENT SAYS THAT JESUS THUS REVEALED HIS GLORY. ONE WAY THAT WORD IS USED IN JOHN’S GOSPEL WE MIGHT CALL HIS TRUE COLORS, HIS TRUE NATURE IS COMING OUT HERE. HE IS NOT AN ORDINARY GUEST AT THIS WEDDING FEAST. HE IS, IN FACT, A UNIQUE GOD-MAN, CAPABLE OF SUPERNATURAL DEEDS BECAUSE HE IS A SUPERNATURAL BEING. SO THIS WHOLE QUESTION OF HOW WE ARE TO UNDERSTAND MIRACLES, ESPECIALLY LIVING TODAY, THESE THINGS WERE PERFORMED IN JESUS’ DAY AND NOW WE LIVE 20 CENTURIES LATER AND TRY TO MAKE SOME CONCLUSION ABOUT THEM. I THINK YOU ARE RIGHT TO RECOGNIZE THAT AS A VERY GENUINE AND REAL STRUGGLE. HERE ARE SOME THINGS I’D LIKE TO OFFER OUR LISTENERS AS A WAY OF THINKING THROUGH THIS. WE SEE THIS AS SECOND HAND, THEY COME TO US AS SECOND HAND EXPERIENCES. WE ARE NOT EYE WITNESSES OF THESE THINGS. SO I THINK THERE IS SOME DIFFERENCE IN HOW WE MIGHT COME TO UNDERSTAND THEM. FIRST OF ALL, TO UNDERSTAND THIS, WHEN JESUS PERFORMED THESE MIRACLES THE MIRACLES, WHAT HE DID, WAS NEVER DENIED. EVEN BY THOSE WHO DIDN’T BELIEVE IN JESUS. IN OTHER WORDS, WHEN JESUS PERFORMS A MIRACLE PEOPLE MIGHT SAY, “HOW DID HE DO THIS? IS THE DEVIL GIVING HIM THIS POWER? IS HE SATANIC IN ORIGIN?” THEY MAY WONDER WHERE HE GOT THIS POWER. BUT THEY NEVER DENY THE GENUINENESS OR THE AUTHENTICITY OF THE THINGS THAT THEY SEE JESUS DO. I THINK THAT IS IMPORTANT. EVEN HIS ENEMIES ACKNOWLEDGE THAT JESUS IS DOING SOMETHING SUPERNATURAL. I THINK SOMETHING ELSE THAT HAS HELPED ME IN MY FAITH IS THAT I CAN’T REALLY SEPARATE THE MIRACLES OF JESUS FROM THE PERSON OF JESUS. HERE’S WHAT I MEAN BY THAT. THAT IF WE WOULD RATHER THAN TRY TO MAKE SOME CONCLUSION INITIALLY ABOUT THE MIRACLES OF JESUS, I THINK IF WE WOULD LOOK AT THE PERSON OF JESUS, LOOK AT THE KIND OF THINGS HE TEACHES, LOOK AT THE KIND OF WAYS THAT HE INTERACTS WITH INDIVIDUALS, LOOK AT THE KIND OF STATEMENT HE MAKES AND COME TO SOME TENTATIVE CONCLUSION ABOUT HIM. THAT IF WE COME TO SEE HIM AS AN EXTRAORDINARY HUMAN BEING THAN IT BECOMES MORE POSSIBLE FOR US TO ACCEPT HIS MIRACLES. IN OTHER WORDS, DON’T MAKE YOUR CONCLUSION ABOUT THE PERSON OF JESUS BASED ON HIS MIRACLES. MAKE YOUR CONCLUSION ABOUT THE AUTHENTICITY OF HIS MIRACLES BASED ON THE PERSON OF JESUS. IN SOME WAYS THEY’RE INSEPARABLE, I REALIZE THAT, BUT I SUPPOSE I’M SUGGESTING A STARTING PLACE. IT SEEMS TO ME IT’S A VERY MODERN NOTION TO ACCEPT THE SCIENTIFIC MODEL WITHOUT ANY QUESTION. AND CERTAINLY THE SCIENTIFIC MODEL HAS DONE MUCH HUMANITY. BUT IT SEEMS TO ME THAT WE OFTEN REJECT THE REALITY OF JESUS’ MIRACLES ON PHILOSOPHICAL GROUNDS; THAT, IN FACT, SOME OF OUR WORLD VIEWS ARE CLOSED TO SUPERNATURAL INTERVENTION AND, THEREFORE, WE RULE OUT THE POSSIBILITY ON THE FRONT END. I KNOW PEOPLE WHO INSIST THE MIRACLES COULD NOT HAVE HAPPENED, AND IN FACT THEY HAVE TO INSIST THAT BECAUSE THEIR WORLD VIEW EXCLUDES THAT POSSIBILITY, BEFORE THE FACT AND BEFORE THEY COULD EVEN CONSIDER THE REALITY OF THE MIRACLES THEY HAVE TO RULE THEM OUT BECAUSE OF THEIR VIEW. ONE PERSON, NAME F. F. BRUCE, AN ENGLISH SCHOLAR, SAID “IF WE REJECT FROM THE BEGINNING THE IDEA OF A SUPERNATURAL JESUS, THEN OF COURSE WE SHALL REJECT HIS MIRACLES ALSO. IF, ON THE OTHER HAND, WE ACCEPT THE GOSPEL PICTURE OF HIM, THE MIRACLES WILL CEASE TO BE AN INSURMOUNTABLE STUMBLING BLOCK. IN OTHER WORDS, IF IN FACT YOU CONCLUDE THAT JESUS IS THE SON OF GOD THEN OF COURSE YOU WOULD EXPECT HIM TO DO SOMETHING MIRACULOUS OR AS ONE OTHER SCHOLAR PUT IT IN ONE SENSE MIRACLES ARE A HINDRANCE TO FAITH. BUT WHOEVER THOUGHT TO THE CONTRARY, IT MAY BE ADMITTED OF COURSE THAT IF THE NEW TESTAMENT HAD NO MIRACLES IN IT, IT WOULD BE FAR EASIER TO BELIEVE. BUT THE TROUBLE IS IT WOULD NOT BE WORTH BELIEVING. I THINK THERE IS SOME HOPE THERE FOR US, I THINK THE MIRACLES, IF I COULD SAY THIS ALSO, TELL US SOMETHING ABOUT GOD. THEY TELL US ABOUT A GOD WHO CARES, HE GETS INVOLVED IN THE WHAT WE MIGHT CALL MUNDANE THINGS OF HUMAN AFFAIRS, LIKE THE WEDDING FEAST, THE MIRACLES OF JESUS I THINK PAINT A PICTURE OF WHAT GOD CAN DO TO OUR HEARTS IN TERMS OF CHANGING US. I THINK THEY ALSO POSE A CHALLENGE FOR US. THAT WE MUST COME TO SOME CONCLUSION ABOUT THE PERSON OF JESUS. IS HE WHO HE CLAIMS TO BE OR NOT? I THINK IN SOME WAYS THE MIRACLES OF JESUS FORCE THAT ISSUE ON US. MIKE: DR. COCHRAN, OVER THE YEARS, ONCE OR TWICE, I’VE HEARD PEOPLE SAY THINGS OF THIS NATURE, IF I COULD PLAY THE DEVIL’S ADVOCATE FOR A MOMENT. I’VE HEARD PEOPLE SAY THINGS LIKE, “WELL IF IT WAS JESUS’ PURPOSE TO COME AND TO HEAL MIRACULOUSLY THAN HE WAS A TREMENDOUS FAILURE BECAUSE THERE ARE STILL A LOT OF SICK PEOPLE IN THE WORLD. IF HIS PURPOSE WAS TO MIRACULOUSLY TO FEED THAN HE WAS A TREMENDOUS FAILURE BECAUSE THERE ARE SO MANY HUNGRY IN THE WORLD.” I GUESS THAT SPEAKS TO THE BASIC PURPOSE OF THESE MIRACLES, WHY THEY WERE PERFORMED. WAS IT SIMPLY JUST TO IMPRESS OR WAS THERE A SPECIFIC GOAL IN MIND WHEN THESE MIRACLES WERE PERFORMED? DR. COCHRAN: GOOD QUESTION AND CERTAINLY, IF I WERE GOD, I WOULD HAVE HEALED EVERYONE AND FED EVERYONE. ONE OF OUR FRUSTRATIONS IS NOT KNOWING, TO OUR SATISFACTION, THE “WHY GOD ACTS AND DOESN’T ACT” THE WAY WE WOULD IMAGE THAT GOD WOULD WANT TO ACT IF WE WERE GOD. AND YET IT SEEMS THAT THESE MIRACLES, AT LEAST IN JOHN’S GOSPEL, PROVIDE A KIND OF THRESHOLD, A KIND OF LINE IN THE DIRT THAT WE MUST MAKE A DECISION ABOUT JESUS. THEY CALL ON US TO CONSIDER JESUS AS A PERSON EXTRAORDINARY, AS A SUPERNATURAL PERSON. THEY INVITE US, BUT NOT COERCE US. THEY DO NOT FORCE US TO BELIEVE, BUT THEY AT LEAST POSE THE ISSUE. THEY FORCE THE QUESTION. JESUS DIDN’T HEAL EVERYONE. HE HEALED ENOUGH PEOPLE, HOWEVER, TO MAKE IT CLEAR THAT HE’S NOT YOUR ORDINARY HUMAN BEING. HE DOES LIVE WHAT HE CLAIMS TO BE, BUT IS A REPRESENTATIVE OF THE GOD-HEAD BEING OF GOD, THE SON OF GOD. THAT FORCES HIS ORIGINAL WITNESSES AND THOSE OF US LIVING TODAY TO MAKE SOME CONCLUSION ABOUT HIM. REMAINING NEUTRAL ABOUT JESUS IS NOT SOMETHING HE WANTED US TO DO. MIKE: THAT CERTAINLY WILL GIVE OUR FRIENDS SOME NEW PERSPECTIVES ON THE MIRACLES OF THIS BIBLE BOOK CALLED JOHN.
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MIKE: TODAY AS WE WRAP UP OUR TIME TOGETHER WE’RE GOING TO TALK ABOUT WHAT JOHN HAS TO SAY ABOUT HEALING TROUBLED LIVES. DR. COCHRAN, IN THIS BIBLE BOOK OF JOHN THERE ARE A NUMBER OF INTERESTING CHARACTERS AND ALL OF THEM SUFFERING SOME KIND OF DIFFICULTY OR TRAGEDY. THERE IS SICKNESS, THERE IS BROKEN FAMILIES, PAIN OF ONE KIND OR ANOTHER. THIS BOOK HAS A DEAL TO SAY ABOUT THAT. THAT, OF COURSE, IS SOMETHING THAT WE CAN ALL RELATE TO. THERE IS THIS KIND OF PAIN AND TRAGEDY IN ALL OF OUR LIVES IN ONE RESPECT OR ANOTHER. TELL US WHAT THE BIBLE BOOK OF JOHN HAS TO SAY ON THIS SUBJECT. DR. COCHRAN: I THINK YOU’RE RIGHT ABOUT THE KINDS OF BROKENNESS, IF YOU WANT TO USE THAT WORD THAT WE FEEL, IN TERMS OF LONELINESS OR FAILURE, THE DISAPPOINTMENT THAT SOMETIMES OUR FAMILIES BRING TO OUR EXPERIENCES. I’VE HEARD IT SAID THIS WAY THAT ALL OF US THIS WITH A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF TROUBLE IN OUR LIFE. I WANT TO, JUST VERY BRIEFLY, TO CONCLUDE THIS SERIES WITH OFFERING THE LISTENERS SOMETHING THAT’S BEEN HELPFUL TO ME IN MY OWN JOURNEY AS A HUMAN BEING. THAT IS A PROMISE THAT JESUS MAKES. IT’S IN CHAPTER 16 OF JOHN’S BOOK AND VERSE 33. HE’S BEEN TALKING WITH HIS DISCIPLES AS A KIND OF FAREWELL MESSAGE TO THEM AND IT’S NOT ALL SWEETNESS AND SUNSHINE WE MIGHT SAY IN THE SOUTHERN UNITED STATES. IT’S A HARD MESSAGE IN SOME WAYS. IT’S LACED WITH PROMISES. HE SAYS THIS IN CHAPTER 16, VERSE 33, “I’VE TOLD YOU THESE THINGS SO THAT YOU MAY HAVE PEACE. IN THIS WORLD YOU WILL HAVE TROUBLES.” I THINK THAT’S WHERE I IDENTIFY AS A HUMAN BEING WITH THIS TEXT “IN THIS WORLD WE WILL HAVE TROUBLE.” AND WE ALL EXPERIENCE THAT TROUBLE. I SUSPECT THOSE LISTENING TO THIS BROADCAST CAN NAME SOME THINGS IN THEIR LIVES THAT THEY CAN LABEL AS TROUBLE. BUT IN THIS TEXT JESUS GOES ON TO SAY, “BUT TAKE HEART, I’VE OVERCOME THE WORLD.” IT’S A RECOGNITION OF THE TROUBLE WE HAVE AND YET IT ENDS WITH A PROMISE THAT JESUS HIMSELF HAS OVERCOME THE WORLD. HE PROMISES EARLIER THAT HE WOULD PROVIDE A PLACE FOR US IN HEAVEN (JOHN 14). IN THIS CHAPTER (CHAPTER 16), HE SAYS, “I’M GOING TO SEND YOU A COMFORTER, THE HOLY SPIRIT, TO HELP YOU IN YOUR TIMES.” SO WE WISH THAT OUR EXPERIENCE AS HUMAN BEINGS IS NOT ONE OF TROUBLE. HE COMPARES OUR EXPERIENCE (CHAPTER 16, VERSE 21) WITH A WOMAN GIVING BIRTH. HE SAID THAT LIVING IS LIKE GIVING BIRTH; IT’S PAINFUL SOMETIMES, IT’S TROUBLING. AND YET THE SAME THING THAT GIVES WOMAN PAIN IS ALSO THE SAME THING THAT BRINGS HER JOY, IT’S THE CHILD. IN A SENSE THAT WE CAN’T ALWAYS CHANGE THE CIRCUMSTANCES OF OUR LIVES. SO THOSE CIRCUMSTANCES MIGHT BRING US PAIN, BUT SOMEHOW THOSE SAME THINGS CAN BECOME TRANSFORMED AND BRING US JOY. I WAS TALKING WITH A FRIEND JUST YESTERDAY. WE WERE TOGETHER IN ANOTHER CITY IN TENNESSEE. HE HAD BEEN READING SOMETHING AND HE MADE THIS COMMENT THAT I THOUGHT WAS REAL INTERESTING. WE TEND NOT TO SEE THINGS AS THEY ARE, BUT AS WE ARE. I THINK WE’D LIKE TO SEE LIFE AS FREE OF TROUBLE. WE’D LIKE TO SEE EVEN GOD AS SOMEONE WHO WOULD REMOVE ALL OF OUR TROUBLE. BUT GOD DOESN’T PROMISE US THAT. GOD IN FACT THROUGH THE TEACHINGS OF JESUS AFFIRMS THAT TROUBLE WILL BE IN THE WORLD AND YOU WILL HAVE TROUBLE. BUT TAKE HEART, I HAVE OVERCOME THE WORLD. HE OFFERS TO US A PERSPECTIVE ABOUT OUR TROUBLE; THAT IT’S TEMPORARY. THAT THERE’S SOMETHING MORE CRITICAL, MORE IMPORTANT, MORE FINAL THAN ANY OF THE TROUBLES THAT WE MIGHT ENCOUNTER. AND I FIND THAT VERY COMFORTING. THERE ARE SOME OTHER MESSAGES LIKE THAT IN JOHN’S GOSPEL, BUT THIS ONE IS ONE THAT I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE IDENTIFY WITH. I WANT TO THANK YOU FOR LETTING ME BE A PART OF THIS BROADCAST. I APPRECIATE VERY MUCH THE WORK THAT THIS STATION DOES AND I WISH ALL OUR LISTENERS THE VERY BEST. MIKE: WE APPRECIATE YOU SAYING THAT. BUT I’M NOT READY TO LET YOU GO YET. I WANT TO ASK JUST ONE MORE QUESTION BEFORE I END OUR TIME TOGETHER. AGAIN, AS I DID YESTERDAY, PLAYING THE DEVIL’S ADVOCATE, FROM THE STANDPOINT OF SOME OF OUR LISTENERS LOOKING AT CHRISTIAN PEOPLE AND THE CHRISTIAN LIFE, THEY MAY TAKE A BIT OF THE PRACTICAL APPROACH AND SAY, “PLEASE HELP ME UNDERSTAND WHAT PRACTICAL VALUE THE CHRISTIAN LIFE WOULD BRING TO ME?” AND IN THIS CONTEXT AS WE ARE TALKING ABOUT HEALING FOR TROUBLED LIVES. CAN YOU GIVE US SOME SPECIFIC EXAMPLES OF WHAT A LIFE OF FAITH AND A LIFE OF CHRISTIAN SERVICE CAN BRING TO SOMEONE WHO IS EXPERIENCING A TROUBLED LIFE. WHAT ARE SOME OF THE PRACTICAL BENEFITS, I GUESS WE COULD SAY, OF LEADING THAT LIFE? CAN YOU SUGGEST SOME? DR. COCHRAN: I WOULD. I’D LIKE TO PROPOSE WE DO IT THIS WAY. THAT WE TALK IN TERMS OF NOW, WE TALK IN TERMS OF LATER, AND THAT WE ALSO TALK IN TERMS OF, IF NOT THIS, WHAT? WHAT I MEAN BY THAT LATTER STATEMENT “IF NOT CHRISTIANITY, WHAT?” WHETHER OR NOT I’M A CHRISTIAN DOESN’T REMOVE MY TROUBLE. I STILL HAVE THE TROUBLE WHETHER I’M A CHRISTIAN OR NOT. SO I’M LOOKING AS A HUMAN BEING FOR RESOURCES TO ASSIST ME WITH MY TROUBLE. SIMPLY TURNING YOUR BACK ON CHRISTIANITY, YOU’RE STILL LOOKING FOR OPTIONS, YOU’RE STILL LOOKING FOR RESOURCES. I’M NOT SATISFIED, QUITE HONESTLY, AS AN INDIVIDUAL WITH THE ALTERNATIVES THAT ARE OUT THERE. THE QUESTION OF “NOW AND LATER”. TO BEGIN WITH THE “LATER” JESUS SAYS IN CHAPTER 14 OF JOHN AND ELSEWHERE THAT , “I’M GOING TO PREPARE A PLACE FOR YOU.” WHEN I GO THAT MEANS I’M MAKING THAT PLACE AND I’LL RETURN AND TAKE YOU TO BE WHERE I AM. SO THE LATER QUESTION IS THAT OF AN ETERNAL REWARD, CHRISTIANITY AS MANY OTHER RELIGIONS AFFIRM, AN ETERNAL EXISTENCE. JESUS AFFIRMED THAT AS WELL AND SAID, “I WILL COME BACK AND MAKE A PLACE FOR YOU THAT’S TROUBLE FREE.” AND I THINK THE “NOW” QUESTION IS A VERY PRACTICAL ONE AS WELL. JESUS PROMISES HIS HOLY SPIRIT WHICH I THINK IS A VERY ACTIVE REALITY, IT’S NOT SOMETHING THAT’S A LIGHT PROMISE AND AN EMPTY PROMISE. I THINK IT’S VERY MUCH A PRESENCE IN OUR LIVES, THAT THERE’S A REALITY BEYOND MY OWN EFFORT, BEYOND MY OWN ABILITY TO FIGURE OUT MY TROUBLE AND MY OPTIONS THAT CHRIST, IN FACT, THROUGH HIS SPIRIT IS GIVING ME GUIDANCE. I THINK IN ADDITION TO THAT THIS STATEMENT THAT JESUS MAKES IS MADE IN CONTEXT OF COMMUNITY. QUITE HONESTLY ONE OF THE BIGGEST RESOURCES I’M FINDING IN MY LIFE AS A CHRISTIAN IS THE RESOURCE OF A GROUP OF PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT PERFECT, BUT WHO ALL HAVE COMMITTED THEMSELVES TO TRY TO DISCERN THE WILL OF GOD IN THEIR LIVES AND TRY TO STAND AND WALK BESIDE ME AS I LIVE IT OUT AS WELL. THEY BEFRIEND ME, THEY ENCOURAGE ME, THEY LISTEN TO ME WHEN I’M TROUBLED, THEY ENCOURAGE BY THEIR LIVES TO DO WHAT IS RIGHT AND TO LIVE WHAT IS RIGHT AND I VERY MUCH APPRECIATE THE PRESENCE OF OTHERS IN MY LIFE. I THINK THAT’S ANOTHER VERY PRACTICAL BENEFIT OF BEING A CHRISTIAN. COMMUNITY IS A VERY CENTRAL REALITY TO PEOPLE OF CHRISTIAN FAITH. CERTAINLY IT’S A BIG HELP IN OUR HUMAN EXPERIENCE AS WELL. ONE OF THE THINGS I’M FINDING IS THAT WHAT MOST PEOPLE ARE LOOKING FOR CHRISTIANITY HAS. ONE OF THOSE IS A NETWORK OF FRIENDS WHO WILL LOVE YOU AND SUPPORT YOU THROUGH THE VARIOUS TROUBLES OF LIFE AND I APPRECIATE THAT PRESENCE IN MY LIFE. MIKE: VERY NICELY SAID AND I APOLOGIZE FOR SNEAKING UP ON YOU WITH THAT. DR. COCHRAN: NO PROBLEM. I THINK THE CHRISTIAN FAITH NEEDS TO BE ABLE TO BE DEFENDED OR IT’S NOT WORTH BELIEVING. MIKE: NOW I’M PREPARED TO LET YOU GO. I APPRECIATE ALL THE TIME THAT WE’VE SPENT WITH YOU – SPENDING ALL WEEK WITH YOUR STUDENTS AND THEN COME IN ON YOUR DAY OFF TO TALK TO US. WE REALLY DO APPRECIATE IT. DR. COCHRAN: MAYBE WE CAN DO IT AGAIN SOMETIME. MIKE: LET ME MENTION TO OUR LISTENING FRIENDS THAT WE ARE PLACING ALL OF OUR VISITS WITH DR. COCHRAN ON AN AUDIO CASSETTE TAPE AND WOULD BE PLEASED TO MAIL THAT TO YOU FREE AND WITHOUT OBLIGATION. JUST WRITE TO US AT: KNLS, ANCHOR POINT, ALASKA 99556 USA. YOU CAN ALSO MAKE YOUR REQUEST VIA THE INTERNET. OUR E:MAIL ADDRESS IS KNLS@AOL.COM. Would you like to return to the top of the page? The New Life Station is pleased to provide transcripts online for a number of KNLS programs. Please note that all scripts are the property of World Christian Broadcasting and/or SeedSower Productions. They are provided here for your personal enjoyment only and may not be disseminated in any fashion without prior written permission. |